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Barack Obama should be a leader because...

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Barack Obama should be a leader because... Empty Barack Obama should be a leader because...

Post  Cincy Fan 44 Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:26 pm

Post the reasons here on what he's done to show that he is in fact a leader and not a follower...
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Post  LTRT Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:33 pm

"Community Organizer" lol!
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Post  Markwes Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:34 pm

You're always one step ahead of me Cincy!

He fits the type of character Europeans want to see in conflict-free times, which could help in foriegn relations.
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Post  Guest Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:45 pm

He's a muslim.
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Post  LTRT Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:46 pm

Jugomugo wrote:He's a muslim.

Betcha Bman gives you a pass on that one. Wink
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Post  Guest Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:49 pm

He'll sit down with nutjobs who want to kill us.. which isn't ALWAYS a bad idea.. that's assuming he can figure out which one is the leader though (see his comments on Iran).
Clean up Washington.. or at least try to
Maybe ban lobbyists.. I'm all for this regardless of who's in office
Will ensure I always have a job by raising capital gains and corporate taxes to promote finding loopholes

Cons:
He'll ignore Social Security (his plan is to address it in 10 years... 2 years after a possible second term for all the math majors on here)
No history to show he can lead anything, let alone a nation
Appears to change his position quite often based on public sentiment that hour (see position on taxes)
Wants to slow the economy by raising corporate taxes (or at least he did.. I think that's changed this hour)
He smokes.. I hate smokers

And lastly.. the worst part, if he is elected, some racist jackass will shoot him within the first 3 years simply because he's a black man. I don't agree with his views, but I don't see him living through 1 term, and regardless of who's in office, I don't like that idea.
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Post  Guest Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:51 pm

He'll cut taxes for the vast majority of Americans. Not just rich ones.
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Post  Guest Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:55 pm

Jugomugo wrote:He'll cut taxes for the vast majority of Americans. Not just rich ones.

You mean the 50% who pay less than 5% of the total taxes as it is?
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Post  Guest Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:56 pm

cardinal5150 wrote:
Jugomugo wrote:He'll cut taxes for the vast majority of Americans. Not just rich ones.

You mean the 50% who pay less than 5% of the total taxes as it is?

YES ... you fuckin finally got it. He will be the one to cut taxes for those that need the help the most.
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Post  Guest Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:59 pm

What may be insignificant amount of money to some, means feeding your kids, paying for healthcare, etc for others.

The poor and middle class need any help they can get. Not just breaks for the fat cats who don't have to worry if they can afford to feed their kids before school.
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Post  Guest Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:00 pm

Ok I will be like Jugo and keep this thread about what it is suppose to be about, just like I have kept the two Sarah Palin threads clean from my propaganda.

Barack Obama should be elected President because he has the values of Americans at heart. He has the judgment to lead this country. He has the experience to lead this country, and 80% of Americans think this country is on the wrong track. 80% ... think it is on the wrong track. Where is McCain different from Bush on 80% of the issues? He is not ... more of the same.

Obama wins in a landslide. I can't wait to come back here and listen to all of you call him Mr. President Obama.
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Post  Guest Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:01 pm

Jugomugo wrote:What may be insignificant amount of money to some, means feeding your kids, paying for healthcare, etc for others.

The poor and middle class need any help they can get. Not just breaks for the fat cats who don't have to worry if they can afford to feed their kids before school.

Card is a fuckin' wannabe rich guy ... ain't going to happen spinning songs at high school proms. Card, he (Obama) will cut your taxes and enable your kids a better life.
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Post  Guest Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:04 pm

You kinda contradicted yourself there, bro. Just saying.

I want a candidate who will fight to end the war in Iraq.
I want a candidate who is pro-choice.
I want a candidate who will lower taxes for average middle and lower classes.

I vote for what a candidate is going to do for ME, and my causes, not everyone elses.
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Post  Markwes Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:10 pm

Okay, don't mean to hijack the thread, but should I always just vote for the guy cutting more taxes for the poor and taking more from the rich? Hell, then let's just go with the communist plan of making everyone the same. The rich pay 90% of their income, and the poor receive that income. Then when you bust your ass and make a lot of money, you can ride your scooter around because it's all you can afford after taxes, but you will feel really great about helping those who are coasting through life doing nothing.
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Post  Guest Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:12 pm

So, you'd rather pay more in taxes so that a rich person doesn't?
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Post  Guest Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:37 pm

Markwes wrote:Okay, don't mean to hijack the thread, but should I always just vote for the guy cutting more taxes for the poor and taking more from the rich? Hell, then let's just go with the communist plan of making everyone the same. The rich pay 90% of their income, and the poor receive that income. Then when you bust your ass and make a lot of money, you can ride your scooter around because it's all you can afford after taxes, but you will feel really great about helping those who are coasting through life doing nothing.

Did you have lunch with Ayn Rand? Very Happy

maybe I'm naive, but if the top 2% are paying 60% of all taxes (or soemthing like that) is the coverse true that the bottom 2% is receiving 60% of the government aid?
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Post  Markwes Thu Sep 04, 2008 6:52 pm

Jugomugo wrote:So, you'd rather pay more in taxes so that a rich person doesn't?
Tax cuts for the poor and middle class would give a short term relief, but over time business owners paying more tax have to close their shops, make pay cuts, and so on, which eventually hurts those it intended to help.
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Post  Guest Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:46 am

Markwes wrote:
Jugomugo wrote:So, you'd rather pay more in taxes so that a rich person doesn't?
Tax cuts for the poor and middle class would give a short term relief, but over time business owners paying more tax have to close their shops, make pay cuts, and so on, which eventually hurts those it intended to help.

I know this is a very popular theory (Mellon, Reagan etc), but I think it fails on two counts. First, I dont believe that rich individuals at a percent or two away on their personal taxes from closing up shops or making pay cuts. Those that are in this income levels where Obama is proposing raising taxes arent the people that are running things that might be referred to as a "shop," but rather they more likely high level corporate execs, whose personal income has little to do with the incomes or employ of the low and or middle class that are indirectly in their charge.

Secondly, I dont think it works in reverse... Bush cut taxes on these individuals dureing his terms and we have seem some of the smallest job growth numbers we have seen in decades. Granted some of this is due to external factors (oil, credit); but, as above, the personal incomes of these individuals do not feel as if they will have a direct impact on job growth...
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Post  Guest Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:49 am

Jugomugo wrote:What may be insignificant amount of money to some, means feeding your kids, paying for healthcare, etc for others.

The poor and middle class need any help they can get. Not just breaks for the fat cats who don't have to worry if they can afford to feed their kids before school.

So you are essentially saying 100% of income taxes should be paid by say.. the top 5-10% of Americans and that the rest of us should pay nothing, we should get a free ride essentially?

I'm all for helping people, but let's be honest, the middle class won't see anything here. Raising capital gains taxes, that's going to hit the middle class folk like you and I. If we trade stock, we'll owe capital gains taxes. The middle class folk have the money to dabble in the markets, if they want to. BO is proposing to raise taxes on them. The Stock Market is one of the few ways you can augment your income, and move from the middle class to the upper class and Bo is wanting to make that harder.

He's also proposed raising income taxes on corporations. The largest employer in America is the small business. Look around our city, how many bars went out of business because of the cherry masters or smoking bans? Some argue they were destined to fail.. and that may be right.. but what do you tell those people who lost their jobs because of it? If you raise corporate taxes on the businesses left, do you think they are going to be trying to cut costs to afford taxes more? One of the easiest ways to trim costs is to look at your labor force.

So in a time when we need more jobs, increased spending, etc, BO is proposing to essentially make it harder for businesses to hire new people and pay more. That is the fundamental problem with raising taxes on corporations.
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Post  Guest Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:03 am

pez wrote:
Markwes wrote:
Jugomugo wrote:So, you'd rather pay more in taxes so that a rich person doesn't?
Tax cuts for the poor and middle class would give a short term relief, but over time business owners paying more tax have to close their shops, make pay cuts, and so on, which eventually hurts those it intended to help.

I know this is a very popular theory (Mellon, Reagan etc), but I think it fails on two counts. First, I dont believe that rich individuals at a percent or two away on their personal taxes from closing up shops or making pay cuts. Those that are in this income levels where Obama is proposing raising taxes arent the people that are running things that might be referred to as a "shop," but rather they more likely high level corporate execs, whose personal income has little to do with the incomes or employ of the low and or middle class that are indirectly in their charge.

Secondly, I dont think it works in reverse... Bush cut taxes on these individuals dureing his terms and we have seem some of the smallest job growth numbers we have seen in decades. Granted some of this is due to external factors (oil, credit); but, as above, the personal incomes of these individuals do not feel as if they will have a direct impact on job growth...

Here's the problem with your thinking.. you are not taking into account the corporate income tax. BO is wanting to raise taxes on those in the 35% tax bracket.. that's people/families making over $350K essentially. That's the tax bracket he's shooting at. I can list off numerous local businesses that fall into that category that aren't viewed as being uber-rich or lavishly well off. They are average people who run successful businesses.

What about those people who operate as a successful schedule C biz? They're starting out at 25% for their income tax rate as it is.

Look at it this way.. what's the biggest complaint about winning the lotto? You have to give about half to the government for taxes. Whenever people talk about this, they say it's unfair, even if they are dreaming of winning the lotto. Yes, it's still nice to have that other 50%, but, that's not the point.

So, imagine having your regular income taxed at that rate. Is it fair simply because you make $400K, $500M. $1M yearly instead of a one time shot?

I'd also argue that a fair bit more than "some" of the reason for the slow job growth is due to high commodities prices. When your fixed costs double, business will change. Unemployment is still low in comparison to the historical rates, but it appears most don't look much further than 2 years ago.
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Post  floridafun Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:30 am

should be "a" leader isnt enough for me..reasons i want obama for president:

1. i want a president who will continue to respect the right of a woman to choose legal abortion.

2. i want a president who will officially make it illegal to discriminate against gays AND soldeirs with belief systems other than evangeliban, and they should be able to be who they really are.

3. i want a president who has the wisdom to NOT feel his religious opinions and beliefs should apply to everyone as we step backward to legislate some peoples version of "sin", and does not believe specific (or no) religious beliefs determine ones patriotism.

4. i believe anyone interested in his record and general plans for our moving forward can find well documented facts to review in our internet age. those who are set against him wont bother and thats fine. i am in agreement with many of his thoughts and ideas. i dont feel a need to be in agreement with all of them.

5. i feel he has the personality and character attributes which are crucial in turning the tide on international, and national, frustration and disgust with americas current republican/religious rite leadership style fostering/supporting signing-statements, secrecy, lies, torture, lack of infrastructural support, lack of recognition of the looming crisis from poisoning our earth, etc etc. surely he cant do nearly the harm bush/mccain will do with a continuation of basically the same.
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