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Russia ratchets up US tensions with arms sales to Iran and Venezuela

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Post  Guest Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:15 pm

Russia ratchets up US tensions with arms sales to Iran and Venezuela
Tony Halpin in Moscow and Alexi Mostrous in Washington

Russia defied the United States yesterday by announcing plans to sell military hardware to Iran and Venezuela.

The head of Russia’s state arms exporter said that he was negotiating to sell antiaircraft systems to Iran despite American objections. Russia has already delivered 29 Tor-M1 missile systems under a $700 million (£386 million) deal with Iran in 2005.

“Contacts between our countries are continuing and we do not see any reason to suspend them,” Anatoli Isaikin, the general director of Rosoboronexport, told the RIA-Novosti news agency at an arms fair in South Africa.

Reports have circulated for some time that the Kremlin is preparing to sell its S-300 surface-to-air missile system to Iran, offering greater protection against a possible US or Israeli attack on the Islamic republic’s nuclear facilities. The missiles have a range of more than 90 miles (150km).

Sergei Chemezov, the head of the state-owned Russian Technologies, also disclosed that Venezuela’s leader, Hugo Chávez, wanted to buy antiaircraft systems, armoured personnel carriers, and SU35 fighter jets when they come into production in 2010.

The Deputy Prime Minister, Igor Sechin, one of the closest allies of Mr Putin, the Prime Minister, visited Venezuela and Cuba this week. Kommersant, the financial newspaper, said Russia was forming “alliance relations” with the two antiAmerican regimes as a response to US involvement in former Soviet republics.

The Russian moves mark a serious deterioration in relations between Washington and Moscow. Condoleezza Rice, the US Secretary of State, stepped up the rhetoric yesterday by threatening to block Russia’s membership of key international organisations.

She told the Kremlin that its “authoritarian policies” could prevent it from joining the World Trade Organisation and the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development, which coordinates economic policies among industrialised countries. In an outspoken speech to the German Marshall Fund, an institution promoting greater cooperation between America and Europe, Dr Rice said: “The picture emerging is of a Russia increasingly authoritarian at home and aggressive abroad.

“Russia’s bid to join the World Trade Organisation is now in question. And so too is its attempt to join the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development.”

She added: “Russia’s international standing is worse now than at any time since 1991.” The WTO is due to meet in Geneva on Thursday to discuss Russia’s bid to join the global trade body, a process that began in 1993, soon after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

Dr Rice said that Russia’s actions in Georgia fitted into a “worsening pattern of behaviour”, which included its “intimidation of its sovereign neighbours, its use of oil and gas as a political weapon, its threat to target peaceful nations with nuclear weapons, its arms sales to states and groups that threaten international security and its persecution – and worse – of Russian journalists and dissidents.”

She repeated the US commitment to put forward a $1 billion economic support package for Georgia. The European Union has already pledged $500 million.

At the heart of the dispute between the two former Cold War adversaries is Moscow’s insistence that America and its Nato allies are interfering in Russia’s “near abroad” and threatening its interests.

The Kremlin is furious about plans to site an antimissile shield in Eastern Europe. The interceptors are designed to stop ballistic missile attacks from Iran, but Russia believes the system in Poland and the Czech Republic is aimed at weakening its military capability.

Ruslan Pukhov, the director of the Centre for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies in Moscow, said that it was logical to conclude a lucrative contract with Iran “in the current situation, when the US and the West in general are stubbornly gearing toward a confrontation with Russia”.

Mr Putin said last month that Russia should “restore its position in Cuba”, amid persistent speculation that it may seek to open a military base on the island as a retort to the US missile shield.

Deadly deals

— Russia is believed to export arms to about 80 countries

— Venezuela bought Russian fighter jets and helicopters worth £540 million in 2006; Indonesia bought a similar amount in 2007

— China’s arms deals with Russia were worth £1 billion a year but dwindled in 2006 and no new contracts are planned

— In 2005 Russia agreed to sell 30 Tor M-1 air-defence missile systems to Iran

Sources: Global Security, RIA-Novosti, Agencies

C'mon Bush, Obama, McCain. I dare you to attack Iran. Go for it. I can't want to see what Russia does.
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Post  Guest Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:40 pm

Jugomugo wrote:
Russia ratchets up US tensions with arms sales to Iran and Venezuela
Tony Halpin in Moscow and Alexi Mostrous in Washington

Russia defied the United States yesterday by announcing plans to sell military hardware to Iran and Venezuela.

The head of Russia’s state arms exporter said that he was negotiating to sell antiaircraft systems to Iran despite American objections. Russia has already delivered 29 Tor-M1 missile systems under a $700 million (£386 million) deal with Iran in 2005.

“Contacts between our countries are continuing and we do not see any reason to suspend them,” Anatoli Isaikin, the general director of Rosoboronexport, told the RIA-Novosti news agency at an arms fair in South Africa.

Reports have circulated for some time that the Kremlin is preparing to sell its S-300 surface-to-air missile system to Iran, offering greater protection against a possible US or Israeli attack on the Islamic republic’s nuclear facilities. The missiles have a range of more than 90 miles (150km).

Sergei Chemezov, the head of the state-owned Russian Technologies, also disclosed that Venezuela’s leader, Hugo Chávez, wanted to buy antiaircraft systems, armoured personnel carriers, and SU35 fighter jets when they come into production in 2010.

The Deputy Prime Minister, Igor Sechin, one of the closest allies of Mr Putin, the Prime Minister, visited Venezuela and Cuba this week. Kommersant, the financial newspaper, said Russia was forming “alliance relations” with the two antiAmerican regimes as a response to US involvement in former Soviet republics.

The Russian moves mark a serious deterioration in relations between Washington and Moscow. Condoleezza Rice, the US Secretary of State, stepped up the rhetoric yesterday by threatening to block Russia’s membership of key international organisations.

She told the Kremlin that its “authoritarian policies” could prevent it from joining the World Trade Organisation and the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development, which coordinates economic policies among industrialised countries. In an outspoken speech to the German Marshall Fund, an institution promoting greater cooperation between America and Europe, Dr Rice said: “The picture emerging is of a Russia increasingly authoritarian at home and aggressive abroad.

“Russia’s bid to join the World Trade Organisation is now in question. And so too is its attempt to join the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development.”

She added: “Russia’s international standing is worse now than at any time since 1991.” The WTO is due to meet in Geneva on Thursday to discuss Russia’s bid to join the global trade body, a process that began in 1993, soon after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

Dr Rice said that Russia’s actions in Georgia fitted into a “worsening pattern of behaviour”, which included its “intimidation of its sovereign neighbours, its use of oil and gas as a political weapon, its threat to target peaceful nations with nuclear weapons, its arms sales to states and groups that threaten international security and its persecution – and worse – of Russian journalists and dissidents.”

She repeated the US commitment to put forward a $1 billion economic support package for Georgia. The European Union has already pledged $500 million.

At the heart of the dispute between the two former Cold War adversaries is Moscow’s insistence that America and its Nato allies are interfering in Russia’s “near abroad” and threatening its interests.

The Kremlin is furious about plans to site an antimissile shield in Eastern Europe. The interceptors are designed to stop ballistic missile attacks from Iran, but Russia believes the system in Poland and the Czech Republic is aimed at weakening its military capability.

Ruslan Pukhov, the director of the Centre for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies in Moscow, said that it was logical to conclude a lucrative contract with Iran “in the current situation, when the US and the West in general are stubbornly gearing toward a confrontation with Russia”.

Mr Putin said last month that Russia should “restore its position in Cuba”, amid persistent speculation that it may seek to open a military base on the island as a retort to the US missile shield.

Deadly deals

— Russia is believed to export arms to about 80 countries

— Venezuela bought Russian fighter jets and helicopters worth £540 million in 2006; Indonesia bought a similar amount in 2007

— China’s arms deals with Russia were worth £1 billion a year but dwindled in 2006 and no new contracts are planned

— In 2005 Russia agreed to sell 30 Tor M-1 air-defence missile systems to Iran

Sources: Global Security, RIA-Novosti, Agencies

C'mon Bush, Obama, McCain. I dare you to attack Iran. Go for it. I can't want to see what Russia does.


Especially since Palin bitched about Russia invading Georgia and saying we might have to go to war with Russia ... she is brilliant.
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Post  Guest Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:13 am

More brilliance from the foreign intelligence agency of bman incorporated.. must have been trained the same place you learned your economic policies... where'd you go to school again?

Russia will be interesting for the next pres... though I have to believe/all part of their selling is in response to the US supplying nations close to them.
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Post  Guest Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:19 am

cardinal5150 wrote:More brilliance from the foreign intelligence agency of bman incorporated.. must have been trained the same place you learned your economic policies... where'd you go to school again?

Russia will be interesting for the next pres... though I have to believe/all part of their selling is in response to the US supplying nations close to them.

Just to clarify, you must then support the Palin Doctrine for foreign policy.
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Post  LTRT Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:28 am

Hey look everybody, Bman's got a new bash phrase:

Bman wrote:...Palin Doctrine...
Twisted Evil
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Post  floridafun Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:37 am

its an abbreviation...the complete terminology is palin imDOCTRINation. pig
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Post  LTRT Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:41 am

floridafun wrote:its an abbreviation...the complete terminology is palin imDOCTRINation. pig

Sorry but I could not find the definition of "imDOCTRINation" Razz Razz
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Post  Guest Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:45 am

War is not pro-life.

If God "called" me and told me he wants me to attack another country. I'd say "hmmm, sorry. I've actually read the Bible."

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%209:53-56;&version=49;
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Post  Guest Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:21 am

*waits for doe to show up and talk about how its ok by god to kill innocent civilians*
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Post  Guest Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:13 pm

So russia sells arms and the left turns it into how Palin will attack them... maybe it's just me and that silly ability to actually use my brain, but when exactly did the VP get the ability to declare war? I always had this silly notion that Congress was the only one who could do that.. I guess all those years of actually paying attention to what it is the President and VP can actually do are getting in the way of the ignorance to the law that you guys clearly are displaying.

Not to mention Palin is the VP, not the Prez.. but again, silly me.. actually paying attention to facts instead of talking points I can use to try and scare stupid people.
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Post  LTRT Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:15 pm

cardinal5150 wrote:Not to mention Palin is the VP, not the Prez.. but again, silly me.. actually paying attention to facts instead of talking points I can use to try and scare stupid people.

Card, you forgot she's only a "heartbeat away". lol!
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Post  Guest Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:21 pm

cardinal5150 wrote:So russia sells arms and the left turns it into how Palin will attack them... maybe it's just me and that silly ability to actually use my brain, but when exactly did the VP get the ability to declare war? I always had this silly notion that Congress was the only one who could do that.. I guess all those years of actually paying attention to what it is the President and VP can actually do are getting in the way of the ignorance to the law that you guys clearly are displaying.

Not to mention Palin is the VP, not the Prez.. but again, silly me.. actually paying attention to facts instead of talking points I can use to try and scare stupid people.

It's funny, you clearly know where the lines are when you stand in defense of Palin, but not when Bush and Cheney do it. WTF? Either you don't care if the constitutional powers given to the executive branch are abused, or you only care if you don't agree with the abuse. Sometimes you remember them, other times you forget. No wonder you get behind a candidate with like qualities.

It's

just

simply

fascinating!

Russia ratchets up US tensions with arms sales to Iran and Venezuela 637412
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Post  Markwes Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:28 pm

meta4 wrote:War is not pro-life.

If God "called" me and told me he wants me to attack another country. I'd say "hmmm, sorry. I've actually read the Bible."

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%209:53-56;&version=49;
That's a bit oversimplified, don't ya think? Shouldn't you let God explain the problem?
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Post  Guest Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:32 pm

Markwes wrote:
meta4 wrote:War is not pro-life.

If God "called" me and told me he wants me to attack another country. I'd say "hmmm, sorry. I've actually read the Bible."

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%209:53-56;&version=49;
That's a bit oversimplified, don't ya think? Shouldn't you let God explain the problem?

Did I take that out of context? I hadn't thought of that as 'over'simplified because I expect my 5 year old to understand what that means.

What do YOU think? How is it over simplified?
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Post  Markwes Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:57 pm

meta4 wrote:
Markwes wrote:
meta4 wrote:War is not pro-life.

If God "called" me and told me he wants me to attack another country. I'd say "hmmm, sorry. I've actually read the Bible."

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%209:53-56;&version=49;
That's a bit oversimplified, don't ya think? Shouldn't you let God explain the problem?

Did I take that out of context? I hadn't thought of that as 'over'simplified because I expect my 5 year old to understand what that means.

What do YOU think? How is it over simplified?
I was referring to your statement that "War is not pro-life". Clearly if Russia decided to attack Canada for absolutely no reason, we could help defend them and maybe take a few lives in the process, or stand there and say "I've read the Bible" while thousands are killed. I was steering away from a Biblical discussion, but if you wish. Ask your 5 year old if he/she has an opinion on that.

Jesus telling the disciples to buy a sword.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2022:36;&version=31;

There is "a time to kill", "a time for war".
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=25&chapter=3&version=31
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Post  Guest Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:07 pm

Hehe, I'd like to see you steer straight into something for comparison Very Happy

Talk to me when Russia invades Canada. To answer your previous question, "is that over simplified?", Hell no. Explain War to a 5 year old. Then tell me which one is more complex.

Show me ANY scripture in the New Testament where Jesus says to kill people for any reason.
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Post  Guest Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:34 pm

meta4 wrote:
It's funny, you clearly know where the lines are when you stand in defense of Palin, but not when Bush and Cheney do it. WTF? Either you don't care if the constitutional powers given to the executive branch are abused, or you only care if you don't agree with the abuse. Sometimes you remember them, other times you forget. No wonder you get behind a candidate with like qualities.

It's

just

simply

fascinating!

Russia ratchets up US tensions with arms sales to Iran and Venezuela 637412

again... perhaps you can correct me.... who has the power to declare war?

I was never for going into Iraq unprovoked... but I'm not terribly upset with Saddam being gone either. That said. Congress authorized force. Bush counldn't have sent in a massive force without them. So if you think somehow magically McCain/Palin would be able to send in troops on their own to Russia, or convince Congress (regardless of the make up) to go to war with Russia without overwhelming support.. well.. come on.. I'm not even going to suggest you are that ignorant.
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Post  floridafun Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:12 pm

cardinal5150 wrote:So russia sells arms and the left turns it into how Palin will attack them... maybe it's just me and that silly ability to actually use my brain, but when exactly did the VP get the ability to declare war? I always had this silly notion that Congress was the only one who could do that.. I guess all those years of actually paying attention to what it is the President and VP can actually do are getting in the way of the ignorance to the law that you guys clearly are displaying.

Not to mention Palin is the VP, not the Prez.. but again, silly me.. actually paying attention to facts instead of talking points I can use to try and scare stupid people.

uh..was this a direct quote from glenn beck, or just a saturation result? i swear it sounds exactly like him lol!
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Post  Cincy Fan 44 Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:22 pm

Even if it was from Glen Beck, or Rush, or Hannity, or Bill Cunningham of 700 WLW, it makes a whole lot of sense. A whole lot of sense.
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Post  Guest Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:06 pm

RT just for you --

She is a heartbeat away (and that heart is a 73 year old man who has had several bouts of cancer, melanoma no less) ...
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Post  floridafun Sat Sep 20, 2008 10:41 am

LTRT wrote:
floridafun wrote:its an abbreviation...the complete terminology is palin imDOCTRINation. pig

Sorry but I could not find the definition of "imDOCTRINation" Razz Razz

unlike she who thankfully no longer shows on my viewing here rendeer i am woman enough to admit when i misspell something geek
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Post  floridafun Sat Sep 20, 2008 10:48 am

cardinal5150 wrote:when exactly did the VP get the ability to declare war?

since george bush became prez in title only at the same time veep cheney became the mastermind aka puppetmaster of all decisions on which lies, manipulations, misinformation, and secrecy are the base.
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Post  floridafun Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:02 am

when russia is busted for selling arms to another country its a huge deal and we need to consider whether we may need to go to war with them.

when america sells arms to other countries and gets busted for it, we are just trying to assist people who are victimized to better fight for themselves...makes sense to those who believe in the "do as i say and not as i do" mentality..

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/washington/14arms.html?hp

From tanks, helicopters and fighter jets to missiles, remotely piloted aircraft and even warships, the Department of Defense has agreed so far this fiscal year to sell or transfer more than $32 billion in weapons and other military equipment to foreign governments, compared with $12 billion in 2005.

The trend, which started in 2006, is most pronounced in the Middle East, but it reaches into northern Africa, Asia, Latin America, Europe and even Canada, through dozens of deals that senior Bush administration officials say they are confident will both tighten military alliances and combat terrorism.

“This is not about being gunrunners,” said Bruce S. Lemkin, the Air Force deputy under secretary who is helping to coordinate many of the biggest sales. “This is about building a more secure world.”

The surging American arms sales reflect the foreign policy tides, including the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and the broader campaign against international terrorism, that have dominated the Bush administration. Deliveries on orders now being placed will continue for several years, perhaps as one of President Bush’s most lasting legacies.

The United States is far from the only country pushing sophisticated weapons systems: it is facing intense competition from Russia and elsewhere in Europe, including continuing contests for multibillion-dollar deals to sell fighter jets to India and Brazil.
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Post  floridafun Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:08 am

meta4 wrote:War is not pro-life.

If God "called" me and told me he wants me to attack another country. I'd say "hmmm, sorry. I've actually read the Bible."

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%209:53-56;&version=49;

when jesus told us to love our enemies, he probably meant not to kill them? santa
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