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captialism and socialism and all that there stuff..

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Post  floridafun Sun Jul 26, 2009 9:32 am

i so agree with bill maher on this..

How about this for a New Rule: Not everything in America has to make a profit. It used to be that there were some services and institutions so vital to our nation that they were exempt from market pressures. Some things we just didn't do for money. The United States always defined capitalism, but it didn't used to define us. But now it's becoming all that we are.

Did you know, for example, that there was a time when being called a "war profiteer" was a bad thing? But now our war zones are dominated by private contractors and mercenaries who work for corporations. There are more private contractors in Iraq than American troops, and we pay them generous salaries to do jobs the troops used to do for themselves -- like laundry. War is not supposed to turn a profit, but our wars have become boondoggles for weapons manufacturers and connected civilian contractors.

Prisons used to be a non-profit business, too. And for good reason -- who the hell wants to own a prison? By definition you're going to have trouble with the tenants. But now prisons are big business. A company called the Corrections Corporation of America is on the New York Stock Exchange, which is convenient since that's where all the real crime is happening anyway. The CCA and similar corporations actually lobby Congress for stiffer sentencing laws so they can lock more people up and make more money. That's why America has the world;s largest prison population -- because actually rehabilitating people would have a negative impact on the bottom line.

Television news is another area that used to be roped off from the profit motive. When Walter Cronkite died last week, it was odd to see news anchor after news anchor talking about how much better the news coverage was back in Cronkite's day. I thought, "Gee, if only you were in a position to do something about it."

But maybe they aren't. Because unlike in Cronkite's day, today's news has to make a profit like all the other divisions in a media conglomerate. That's why it wasn't surprising to see the CBS Evening News broadcast live from the Staples Center for two nights this month, just in case Michael Jackson came back to life and sold Iran nuclear weapons. In Uncle Walter's time, the news division was a loss leader. Making money was the job of The Beverly Hillbillies. And now that we have reporters moving to Alaska to hang out with the Palin family, the news is The Beverly Hillbillies.

And finally, there's health care. It wasn't that long ago that when a kid broke his leg playing stickball, his parents took him to the local Catholic hospital, the nun put a thermometer in his mouth, the doctor slapped some plaster on his ankle and you were done. The bill was $1.50, plus you got to keep the thermometer.

But like everything else that's good and noble in life, some Wall Street wizard decided that hospitals could be big business, so now they're run by some bean counters in a corporate plaza in Charlotte. In the U.S. today, three giant for-profit conglomerates own close to 600 hospitals and other health care facilities. They're not hospitals anymore; they're Jiffy Lubes with bedpans. America's largest hospital chain, HCA, was founded by the family of Bill Frist, who perfectly represents the Republican attitude toward health care: it's not a right, it's a racket. The more people who get sick and need medicine, the higher their profit margins. Which is why they're always pushing the Jell-O.

Because medicine is now for-profit we have things like "recision," where insurance companies hire people to figure out ways to deny you coverage when you get sick, even though you've been paying into your plan for years.

When did the profit motive become the only reason to do anything? When did that become the new patriotism? Ask not what you could do for your country, ask what's in it for Blue Cross/Blue Shield.

If conservatives get to call universal health care "socialized medicine," I get to call private health care "soulless vampires making money off human pain." The problem with President Obama's health care plan isn't socialism, it's capitalism.

And if medicine is for profit, and war, and the news, and the penal system, my question is: what's wrong with firemen? Why don't they charge? They must be commies. Oh my God! That explains the red trucks!
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Post  Markwes Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:27 pm

Typical Maher. Use extreme sarcasm and go on a tirade that criticizes but offers no solutions. Yes, surely if we let the government oversee our healthcare, we will start seeing more caring doctors who don't care about making a profit. Oh, and the news shows will be more like in the days of Walter Cronkite too. Rolling Eyes
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Post  Guest Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:24 am

floridafun wrote:i so agree with bill maher on this..

How about this for a New Rule: Not everything in America has to make a profit. It used to be that there were some services and institutions so vital to our nation that they were exempt from market pressures. Some things we just didn't do for money. The United States always defined capitalism, but it didn't used to define us. But now it's becoming all that we are.

Did you know, for example, that there was a time when being called a "war profiteer" was a bad thing? But now our war zones are dominated by private contractors and mercenaries who work for corporations. There are more private contractors in Iraq than American troops, and we pay them generous salaries to do jobs the troops used to do for themselves -- like laundry. War is not supposed to turn a profit, but our wars have become boondoggles for weapons manufacturers and connected civilian contractors.

Prisons used to be a non-profit business, too. And for good reason -- who the hell wants to own a prison? By definition you're going to have trouble with the tenants. But now prisons are big business. A company called the Corrections Corporation of America is on the New York Stock Exchange, which is convenient since that's where all the real crime is happening anyway. The CCA and similar corporations actually lobby Congress for stiffer sentencing laws so they can lock more people up and make more money. That's why America has the world;s largest prison population -- because actually rehabilitating people would have a negative impact on the bottom line.

Television news is another area that used to be roped off from the profit motive. When Walter Cronkite died last week, it was odd to see news anchor after news anchor talking about how much better the news coverage was back in Cronkite's day. I thought, "Gee, if only you were in a position to do something about it."

But maybe they aren't. Because unlike in Cronkite's day, today's news has to make a profit like all the other divisions in a media conglomerate. That's why it wasn't surprising to see the CBS Evening News broadcast live from the Staples Center for two nights this month, just in case Michael Jackson came back to life and sold Iran nuclear weapons. In Uncle Walter's time, the news division was a loss leader. Making money was the job of The Beverly Hillbillies. And now that we have reporters moving to Alaska to hang out with the Palin family, the news is The Beverly Hillbillies.

And finally, there's health care. It wasn't that long ago that when a kid broke his leg playing stickball, his parents took him to the local Catholic hospital, the nun put a thermometer in his mouth, the doctor slapped some plaster on his ankle and you were done. The bill was $1.50, plus you got to keep the thermometer.

But like everything else that's good and noble in life, some Wall Street wizard decided that hospitals could be big business, so now they're run by some bean counters in a corporate plaza in Charlotte. In the U.S. today, three giant for-profit conglomerates own close to 600 hospitals and other health care facilities. They're not hospitals anymore; they're Jiffy Lubes with bedpans. America's largest hospital chain, HCA, was founded by the family of Bill Frist, who perfectly represents the Republican attitude toward health care: it's not a right, it's a racket. The more people who get sick and need medicine, the higher their profit margins. Which is why they're always pushing the Jell-O.

Because medicine is now for-profit we have things like "recision," where insurance companies hire people to figure out ways to deny you coverage when you get sick, even though you've been paying into your plan for years.

When did the profit motive become the only reason to do anything? When did that become the new patriotism? Ask not what you could do for your country, ask what's in it for Blue Cross/Blue Shield.

If conservatives get to call universal health care "socialized medicine," I get to call private health care "soulless vampires making money off human pain." The problem with President Obama's health care plan isn't socialism, it's capitalism.

And if medicine is for profit, and war, and the news, and the penal system, my question is: what's wrong with firemen? Why don't they charge? They must be commies. Oh my God! That explains the red trucks!

I saw this one too ... Bill Maher is freakin incredible!!!!!!!!!!
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Post  Scooby01_98 Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:55 am

Bill Maher better like capitalism, without it he wouldn't have a paying job. After all his network has to make money in order to pay him (and probably overpaid at that).

Nothing wrong with companies making profits. Nothing wrong with the government hiring a company to do non combat jobs like laundry, cook etc for the troops. It is cheaper to contract with a company than put the equivalent number of people in a uniform, train them, feed them, pay them etc.

As far as for healthcare. You need money for all the equipment in those hospitals, for the latest technology, to replace aging buildings and build new facilities. You think Lutheran hospital and Parkview could afford to build those new facilities without charging people. I think we get pretty good healthcare compared to other countries with socialized medicine.

http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba649

Since you hate capitalism so much I expect Bman and FF will be quitting those nasty jobs at their capitalist companies they have and go work for a non profit organization. I think the perfect job for them would be soliciting all those capitalist company and people for money so they could have a paycheck. That way when you come to the door we can captialism and socialism and all that there stuff.. 309907
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Post  floridafun Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:31 pm

bill kristol explaining our gov successfully provides the best public health plan in the world...

http://www.thedailyshow.com/
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Post  floridafun Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:34 pm

well your half right scooby...i have decided i would like to become president of my employing company. so i should quit now and go out and give speeches..right? pig
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Post  floridafun Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:37 pm

and dont call me a quitter because our military is risking their all so i can do this!!

on a real note tho..my x has a son in afghanistan whose group was attacked a couple weeks ago, some died and some maimed..they didnt hear anything and were really worried. they learned a couple days ago he is ok--he wasnt there when the attack happened.
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Post  floridafun Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:42 am

scooby how can you say its cheaper to hire the contractors to cook and clean. compare average military pay to average contractor pay.
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Post  Scooby01_98 Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:46 am

floridafun wrote:scooby how can you say its cheaper to hire the contractors to cook and clean. compare average military pay to average contractor pay.

Well first, your statement makes it look like you're just going by pay. The cost of a soldier includes pay, housing, medical, relocation of member and family members every 2 to 4 years, continuous training, clothing, safety gear, if the member stays for 20 or more, you then have pension, medical for life.

The contractor does not have all those cost. Doesn't have to offer a pension, no medical for life, no continuous training, no housing to pay for, etc.

The program was started under Jimmy Carter's administration called A-76. The USCG didn't get hit by it much in the 80's, but Clinton expanded it quite a bit in the 90's. A lot of our dining facilities and building maintenance went to contractor run companies.

Basically the A-76 program is to have the government not compete against companies that provide the same services that government does. So you write up a scope of work, put it out to bid, the government does a estimate of how much it cost the government to perform that job, if the commercial company is cheaper they get the job, the government then loses the people doing those jobs when the commercial company starts.

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d02498t.pdf

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d01907t.pdf

http://a-76.nih.gov/
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Post  Guest Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:51 am

Ok, so you were talking people costs...

Why does a gov contracted lease vehicle for a contractor working in Bagdad or Kuwait cost $7,000 per month? Is it really more expensive for the military to buy it here and ship it over there and then leave it for junk than to pay a contractor $7,000 a month per vehicle to provide "leasing services"? Really? Assume a 36 month lease and no buyout option at lease termination, the leasing contractor just takes the car back. MIL does not have the option to take (what should be) a $1 buyout at the end of the lease.
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Post  Scooby01_98 Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:16 pm

meta4 wrote:Ok, so you were talking people costs...

Why does a gov contracted lease vehicle for a contractor working in Bagdad or Kuwait cost $7,000 per month? Is it really more expensive for the military to buy it here and ship it over there and then leave it for junk than to pay a contractor $7,000 a month per vehicle to provide "leasing services"? Really? Assume a 36 month lease and no buyout option at lease termination, the leasing contractor just takes the car back. MIL does not have the option to take (what should be) a $1 buyout at the end of the lease.

Proof please?

I do know that the amount of gov't owned vehicles are limited unless approved by the agency head or congress. So if the military needs more of that type of vehicle in its inventory (and yes that includes cars) they have to get approval. They need no such approval for leasing a vehicle. Also depends on how long or how far in advance they can give notice. I know CG needed extra vehicles for our recovery efforts from hurricane Katrina, GSA could not provide the needed vehicles, we leased from commercial companies for the duration of our operations.
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