Merry Christmas!

amanaplanacanalpanama

awbinfortwayne wrote:I agree so why bother posting a complaint about the location of a topic? The content of the original post is political humor. So it is in the appropriate forum I suppose????? Am I wrong???? I guess it's left up to one's interpretation so who is right? Who cares. Merry Christmas!!!!!

Why bother? Good question. I was just sayin'. I don't think anyone told you not to, or you could not wish a Merry Christmas. Don't believe anyone told you that you were "wrong". Not sure what you consider political humor, I suspect it has something to do with one's perspective on humor? I would think your intent with this humor would find a better audience in the context of Christian-only group. Teh internets are not wholly Christian. This board is on teh internets. This board contains many different perspectives. Therefore...

I would prefer (if it were my comment) to hold up the paradigm of Christianity during a holiday season of celebration, within an agnostic political system (such as we have here in the US) to reflect Christ's message of Love to all. If you want to get political, Jesus was by nature non-political, but he is called King of kings, so he is authoritarian. If Christians believe the United States exists as a vessel for a system of authoritarian rule as led by their God, they inherently take a position of intolerance to other religious and political systems. This is an abrasive and caustic posture to assume, especially during this holiday season of thankfulness and good cheer. Better it said that "we are the Christians and therefore here are our beliefs". Then, the assumption by all who read/hear whatever comes afterward can be held in proper context without being sarcastically abrasive... during this wondrous season when we celebrate Christmas. Even more specifically, the difference being ... "Christmas Love" and "Christ was Love" (flip the m). Show us both this holiday if you're a Christian. Show us political humor if you're a politician.

meta4 wrote:

awbinfortwayne wrote:I agree so why bother posting a complaint about the location of a topic? The content of the original post is political humor. So it is in the appropriate forum I suppose????? Am I wrong???? I guess it's left up to one's interpretation so who is right? Who cares. Merry Christmas!!!!!

Why bother? Good question. I was just sayin'. I don't think anyone told you not to, or you could not wish a Merry Christmas. Don't believe anyone told you that you were "wrong". Not sure what you consider political humor, I suspect it has something to do with one's perspective on humor? I would think your intent with this humor would find a better audience in the context of Christian-only group. Teh internets are not wholly Christian. This board is on teh internets. This board contains many different perspectives. Therefore...

I would prefer (if it were my comment) to hold up the paradigm of Christianity during a holiday season of celebration, within an agnostic political system (such as we have here in the US) to reflect Christ's message of Love to all. If you want to get political, Jesus was by nature non-political, but he is called King of kings, so he is authoritarian. If Christians believe the United States exists as a vessel for a system of authoritarian rule as led by their God, they inherently take a position of intolerance to other religious and political systems. This is an abrasive and caustic posture to assume, especially during this holiday season of thankfulness and good cheer. Better it said that "we are the Christians and therefore here are our beliefs". Then, the assumption by all who read/hear whatever comes afterward can be held in proper context without being sarcastically abrasive... during this wondrous season when we celebrate Christmas. Even more specifically, the difference being ... "Christmas Love" and "Christ was Love" (flip the m). Show us both this holiday if you're a Christian. Show us political humor if you're a politician.

Merry Christmas Meta!!!!!

meta4 wrote:Why bother? Good question. I was just sayin'. I don't think anyone told you not to, or you could not wish a Merry Christmas. Don't believe anyone told you that you were "wrong". Not sure what you consider political humor, I suspect it has something to do with one's perspective on humor? I would think your intent with this humor would find a better audience in the context of Christian-only group. Teh internets are not wholly Christian. This board is on teh internets. This board contains many different perspectives. Therefore...

I would prefer (if it were my comment) to hold up the paradigm of Christianity during a holiday season of celebration, within an agnostic political system (such as we have here in the US) to reflect Christ's message of Love to all. If you want to get political, Jesus was by nature non-political, but he is called King of kings, so he is authoritarian. If Christians believe the United States exists as a vessel for a system of authoritarian rule as led by their God, they inherently take a position of intolerance to other religious and political systems. This is an abrasive and caustic posture to assume, especially during this holiday season of thankfulness and good cheer. Better it said that "we are the Christians and therefore here are our beliefs". Then, the assumption by all who read/hear whatever comes afterward can be held in proper context without being sarcastically abrasive... during this wondrous season when we celebrate Christmas. Even more specifically, the difference being ... "Christmas Love" and "Christ was Love" (flip the m). Show us both this holiday if you're a Christian. Show us political humor if you're a politician.

I don't know about all that, but it seems ironic that just about all the thread/topic complaints in the past were about putting political posts in a non-political thread.

I personally tire of the "lets not take Christ out of Christmas" argument. I certainly understand and respect the viewpoint, however I think some individuals do perceive the secularization of Christmas as some sort of persecution conspiracy. By vehemently and sometimes unreasonably voicing their objection to "Happy Holidays" over "Merry Christmas" they are presenting literally the opposite viewpoint to those that claim to be offended by someone daring to tell them Merry Christmas at the Macy's perfume counter.

The season means a lot of different things to a lot of people. Christmas was always about family for us, never about Christ. Does this somehow represent a liberal indoctrination at the hands of my parents as we grew up? I tend to doubt they got the memo in our rural Kansas trailer house.

Everyone on both sides of this argument needs to recognize that within each greeting is the notion of goodwill toward our fellow humans, regardless of that goodwill being framed within the context of a religious or secular holiday, it's really the only time of year that we speak to strangers and honestly hope that all of them have happy holidays, one of which is Christmas.

I could be wrong, but I think most people who celebrate Christmas as the birth of Christ have more of an issue with other Christians who seem unable to say Merry Christmas. I agree though. Personally, I don't have a problem with any greeting. I know a lot of people who celebrate Ramadan. If one of them came up to me and said Happy Ramadan, I would take it as a friendly greeting and wish them the same in return.

Markwes wrote:I could be wrong, but I think most people who celebrate Christmas as the birth of Christ have more of an issue with other Christians who seem unable to say Merry Christmas. I agree though. Personally, I don't have a problem with any greeting. I know a lot of people who celebrate Ramadan. If one of them came up to me and said Happy Ramadan, I would take it as a friendly greeting and wish them the same in return.

hehe... my appointment calendar at work was populated by our diversity czar with all the various religions holidays. Every time it's a Sikh holiday I try and go down to typhoid larrys and chat with the sikh guy... it's usually the only time I get him to say anything other that "and what else," or "debit or credit."

Yes, on one side of the coin there are people who go overboard by doing things like not shopping in stores that don't say 'Merry Christmas' or whatever. Then on the other side, there are people like this:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,580959,00.html?test=latestnews

Stars and other religious emblems were ordered removed from Christmas trees in all government buildings in Sonoma County on Monday following a complaint by Irv Sutley, a disabled 65-year-old Marine veteran who said the symbols were "extremely offensive" and part of the "cult" of Christianity.

If you find a star on top of a Christmas tree "extremely offensive" as this guy does, I think you need to get a life.

Markwes wrote:Yes, on one side of the coin there are people who go overboard by doing things like not shopping in stores that don't say 'Merry Christmas' or whatever. Then on the other side, there are people like this:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,580959,00.html?test=latestnews

Stars and other religious emblems were ordered removed from Christmas trees in all government buildings in Sonoma County on Monday following a complaint by Irv Sutley, a disabled 65-year-old Marine veteran who said the symbols were "extremely offensive" and part of the "cult" of Christianity.

If you find a star on top of a Christmas tree "extremely offensive" as this guy does, I think you need to get a life.

Hope he's already taken them off his old Marine uniform as well...

Markwes wrote:Yes, on one side of the coin there are people who go overboard by doing things like not shopping in stores that don't say 'Merry Christmas' or whatever. Then on the other side, there are people like this:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,580959,00.html?test=latestnews

Stars and other religious emblems were ordered removed from Christmas trees in all government buildings in Sonoma County on Monday following a complaint by Irv Sutley, a disabled 65-year-old Marine veteran who said the symbols were "extremely offensive" and part of the "cult" of Christianity.

If you find a star on top of a Christmas tree "extremely offensive" as this guy does, I think you need to get a life.

Hope this guy doesn't want to be buried in Arlington, he'll be offended for eternity.

Actually, more like a secular holiday that christians tried to take over.

Jesus? Not so much the reason for the season

Christmas was not even a feast day for the first few hundred years of the religion. Natality wasn't even something you were supposed to celebrate at all. In 245, the theologian Origen of Alexandria stated that, "only sinners (like Pharaoh and Herod)" celebrated their birthdays. In 303, Christian writer Arnobius ridiculed the idea of celebrating the birthdays of gods. Not until sometime in the mid-to-late 4th century did the birth of Jesus warrant celebration, and then, it was celebrated during Epiphany, which actually celebrated the visit of the Magi. And this was mostly in the Eastern church. It was fully the 9th century before Christmas actually became a big deal, and then it was more because Kings and Emperors started deciding it was a good day to hold coronations.

From the Middle Ages on, Christmas was a party holiday. It's no coincidence that it was held at the same time as the old Roman Saturnalia. This was a time to consume all the perishable goods that wouldn't make it through the winter. If you'd needed to slaughter cattle at the end of autumn, best to hold a nice big feast so everyone could fatten up on them. Special Christmas ales were brewed. Teutonic and Scandinavian traditions like caroling, lighting candles, and decorating with holly and ivy somehow crept into the celebrations. From about 900 on, the terms Christmas and Yule became used interchangeably - and we still do, never minding that Yule is entirely pagan in origin.

Christmas spent the best part of 800 years as a holiday of misrule. It was the time of year to subvert natural order. Servants were crowned and lords played fools. You were allowed to kiss and cavort and roll in the hay. Drunkenness, promiscuity, and gambling weren't just permitted, they were encouraged. You went wassailing -- what we would call caroling -- where the objective was to get someone to give you ale and bread in exchange for your song. If you got ale at every house, I imagine this tradition looking something like a medieval pub crawl.

Allow me to take a moment and fully endorse this method of celebration. Hell yeah wassailing.

It was the time of year to blow off steam, to hit the release valve you so desperately needed. You threw a giant Yule log on the fire -- another borrowed tradition -- and skived off from work for as long as it burnt. It being the middle of winter, you probably didn't have all that much else to do, anyway, with harvest over and spring planting not yet begun. Might as well enjoy yourself. A time to gather around the fire and tell stories and sing songs.

and later...

I still haven't said much about Jesus yet, have I? That's because this didn't really become a church-going holiday until the 1950s, in the wave of McCarthy-ist fervor to prove what good, godly people we all were, in contrast to those nasty godless commies. And people managed to convince themselves, in the space of a decade, that that was how it had always been done. Before then, the important church holidays were still Easter, Epiphany, and Pentecost.

Oh look the conservatives.

And to finish:

Suck it up, cupcakes.

You don't own the season. Practically every religion since the dawn of time has held a celebration at or near the Winter Solstice. Everyone wants to celebrate the return of the sun. Plenty of those religions have sun gods who die and are reborn, if that sounds at all familiar to you. You do not have a monopoly on December. So bugger off and leave me to my pagan idolatry, and I'll leave you to your droning hymns and wooden pews. We'll see who enjoys the spirit of the season more, shall we?

And you know what we really need? More of the old school traditions:

Krampus is a mythical creature. In various regions of the world – especially Austria– it is believed that Krampus accompanies St. Nicholas during the Christmas season, warning and punishing bad children, in contrast to St. Nicholas, who gives gifts to good children.

The word Krampus originates from the Old High German word for claw (Krampen). In the Alpine regions, Krampus is represented by an incubus-like creature. Traditionally, young men dress up as the Krampus in the first two weeks of December, particularly on the evening of December 5, and roam the streets frightening children and women with rusty chains and bells.[1] In some rural areas the tradition also includes birching – corporal punishment with a birch rod – by Krampus, especially of young girls. Images of Krampus usually show him with a basket on his back used to carry away bad children and dump them into the pits of Hell.

Modern Krampus costumes consist of Larve (wooden masks), sheep's skin, and horns. Considerable effort goes into the manufacture of the hand-crafted masks, and many younger adults in rural communities compete in the Krampus events.

Halloween costumes, spankings and presents. It just keeps getting better!

What about "Seasons Greetings"?

Poor poor neglected greetings of good will... when will the prejudice and madness stop?!!

Someone better inform Hallmark that their shit is weak.

MichaelK wrote:

I still haven't said much about Jesus yet, have I? That's because this didn't really become a church-going holiday until the 1950s, in the wave of McCarthy-ist fervor to prove what good, godly people we all were, in contrast to those nasty godless commies. And people managed to convince themselves, in the space of a decade, that that was how it had always been done. Before then, the important church holidays were still Easter, Epiphany, and Pentecost.

Oh look the conservatives.

Wow, this McCarthy was one influential guy.

I decided to look up the author of this bit. He was born in 1985. Yeah, quite the historian. So, he blows a gasket because he apparently heard the phrase "war on Christmas" one too many times. Some people are just downers I guess.

MichaelK wrote:Actually, more like a secular holiday that christians tried to take over.

Jesus? Not so much the reason for the season

Oh that's a shame!!!! But a bigger shame is people only thinking about Jesus this time of year!!!! The liberals have hijacked the birth celebration in exchange for their materialistic pleasures. Don't blame conservatives. Blame liberals!!!!!!

Markwes wrote:Wow, this McCarthy was one influential guy.

I decided to look up the author of this bit. He was born in 1985. Yeah, quite the historian. So, he blows a gasket because he apparently heard the phrase "war on Christmas" one too many times. Some people are just downers I guess.

So apparently you believe historical facts become untrue if someone below an age limit (which you've left up in the air) state them?

Or are you just bitter in your old age?

awbinfortwayne wrote:Oh that's a shame!!!! But a bigger shame is people only thinking about Jesus this time of year!!!! The liberals have hijacked the birth celebration in exchange for their materialistic pleasures. Don't blame conservatives. Blame liberals!!!!!!

So clearly the entire "wasn't about Jesus at all to start with" part sailed right over your head, eh?

MichaelK wrote:

awbinfortwayne wrote:Oh that's a shame!!!! But a bigger shame is people only thinking about Jesus this time of year!!!! The liberals have hijacked the birth celebration in exchange for their materialistic pleasures. Don't blame conservatives. Blame liberals!!!!!!

So clearly the entire "wasn't about Jesus at all to start with" part sailed right over your head, eh?

You're rather crass and rude. But as smart as you are, or project yourself to be, I think it's obvious that I'm agreeing with you and then adding my own "opinion". Cheers to you and hopefully you have a great Christmas or whatever holiday you choose to celebrate!! Life's too short to be rude!!!!!

awbinfortwayne wrote:You're rather crass and rude. But as smart as you are, or project yourself to be, I think it's obvious that I'm agreeing with you and then adding my own "opinion". Cheers to you and hopefully you have a great Christmas or whatever holiday you choose to celebrate!! Life's too short to be rude!!!!!

Actually, you were saying the exact opposite thing and then being nonsensical... but then I really don't expect much from you.

MichaelK wrote:

Markwes wrote:Wow, this McCarthy was one influential guy.

I decided to look up the author of this bit. He was born in 1985. Yeah, quite the historian. So, he blows a gasket because he apparently heard the phrase "war on Christmas" one too many times. Some people are just downers I guess.

So apparently you believe historical facts become untrue if someone below an age limit (which you've left up in the air) state them?

Or are you just bitter in your old age?

So you think 40 something is old age? No I just questioned his "historical facts". You know I was once a kid and questioned the older generation and how they walked to school in snow everyday. But I didn't decide they were stupid because of it, something which you apparently think about those who grew up thinking that Christmas is about Jesus's birthday. You would rather break them down and call them fools. Well, congratulations. You represent our future. I'm so proud. And you still can't answer why you whine when someone says Merry Christmas. Go on being a downer and ridiculing those who you don't agree with.

MichaelK wrote:

awbinfortwayne wrote:You're rather crass and rude. But as smart as you are, or project yourself to be, I think it's obvious that I'm agreeing with you and then adding my own "opinion". Cheers to you and hopefully you have a great Christmas or whatever holiday you choose to celebrate!! Life's too short to be rude!!!!!

Actually, you were saying the exact opposite thing and then being nonsensical... but then I really don't expect much from you.

Can you provide something besides insults and little smileys? Seriously you think you're all that and you're really not.

Markwes wrote:Can you provide something besides insults and little smileys? Seriously you think you're all that and you're really not.

Well there really isn't much there to respond to. I told him he completely missed the point of the post (re: Christmas wasn't about Jesus until about 60 or so years ago and was a multitude of secular and other celebrations for hundreds of years, therefore "The liberals are taking over Christmas etc. etc. is nonsense) but really, if they're not smart enough to grasp it there's not much to be done, you know?

And oh Markwes, I'm really not even being insulting yet. Don't like the smileys? Tough.

MichaelK wrote:

Markwes wrote:Can you provide something besides insults and little smileys? Seriously you think you're all that and you're really not.

Well there really isn't much there to respond to. I told him he completely missed the point of the post (re: Christmas wasn't about Jesus until about 60 or so years ago and was a multitude of secular and other celebrations for hundreds of years, therefore "The liberals are taking over Christmas etc. etc. is nonsense) but really, if they're not smart enough to grasp it there's not much to be done, you know?

And oh Markwes, I'm really not even being insulting yet. Don't like the smileys? Tough.

Geesh you think anyone really cares what your history of the celebration is? You are just way too hung up on conservatives versus liberals.

And I don't care that you overuse smileys. Just pointing out that it doesn't do anything for your argument other than make you look like a dumb teenybopper. Oh well, your choice.

Markwes wrote:Geesh you think anyone really cares what your history of the celebration is? You are just way too hung up on conservatives versus liberals.

And I don't care that you overuse smileys. Just pointing out that it doesn't do anything for your argument other than make you look like a dumb teenybopper. Oh well, your choice.

It's not my history, it's the history, and facts, contrary to the idiocy propagated by the "war on christmas" crowd of nutters.

And that's it right there. It's the nutters, not average conservatives really... though it was that crowd that got the revisionism rolling.

And there you go again, complaining about insults in one breath and then doling them out in the next. You think people who use the smiley feature on the board look like dumb teenyboppers? I suppose the rest of us will keep that in mind, but for my part you can go fuck yourself on that one, Markwes.

MichaelK wrote:

Markwes wrote:Geesh you think anyone really cares what your history of the celebration is? You are just way too hung up on conservatives versus liberals.

And I don't care that you overuse smileys. Just pointing out that it doesn't do anything for your argument other than make you look like a dumb teenybopper. Oh well, your choice.

It's not my history, it's the history, and facts, contrary to the idiocy propagated by the "war on christmas" crowd of nutters.

And that's it right there. It's the nutters, not average conservatives really... though it was that crowd that got the revisionism rolling.

And there you go again, complaining about insults in one breath and then doling them out in the next. You think people who use the smiley feature on the board look like dumb teenyboppers? I suppose the rest of us will keep that in mind, but for my part you can go fuck yourself on that one, Markwes.

Hey ladies MichaelK is single! Better get in line quick for this "winner"

MichaelK wrote:

awbinfortwayne wrote:You're rather crass and rude. But as smart as you are, or project yourself to be, I think it's obvious that I'm agreeing with you and then adding my own "opinion". Cheers to you and hopefully you have a great Christmas or whatever holiday you choose to celebrate!! Life's too short to be rude!!!!!

Actually, you were saying the exact opposite thing and then being nonsensical... but then I really don't expect much from you.

Wow you can read minds and judge people's intent. Talented.