The health care bills

So the house passes the HC bill with the public option, the senate passes it without the Public option... Does anyone think the public option will survive the conference committee?

If Obama is truly the brave leader, willing to make the tough choices in order to do what is right, he would veto any HC legislation that lands on his desk without a public option... my $0.02...

Pez, If he doesn't veto, and it passes, do you think he'll make it through 2012?

Is this issue the one that will make or break his reelection?

Just thinking, far, far away from now.

I think the public option gets neutered in conference committee, Obama signs the bill and he will make a speech of some sort saying that we've made progess but there is far, far to go...

I thought that was the bad dream I had this morning. In my dream, after he says this, the beasts in the health care and insurance industries began to lick their chops fangs, and drool.

The bills are a joke and should not pass I believe!!! How many more democratic senators are going to pull their vote until they get a "sweetheart" deal? This bill passes and Obama can say "Bye Bye" to any hopes of re-election. He makes me sorry I voted for him. This wasn't the kind of change I was expecting.

awbinfortwayne wrote:The bills are a joke and should not pass I believe!!! How many more democratic senators are going to pull their vote until they get a "sweetheart" deal? This bill passes and Obama can say "Bye Bye" to any hopes of re-election. He makes me sorry I voted for him. This wasn't the kind of change I was expecting.

Ok, that brings another question to mind... which part of this Obama's fault? Cause and effect? Some numbers benefits of the bill (I'm hearing from NPR this AM) are that the national deficit will be reduced... but at what cost? Is this merely a trick to get all Americans taxpayers to pay for uninsured health care recipients through taxes, rather than the gov't ultimately borrowing money to pay these costs?

Good questions but nobody knows the answers because nobody knows exactly what is inside the bill. It will ultimately be Obama's fault if he signs it.

Actually I think the abortion restrictions on funding insurance options will be more of a hang up than the public option. 40 dem reps have already said they would not vote for it if the compromise bill contains the Stupak amendment (I believe it was him anyway the dem from Michigan) or something close to it. Just today a Dem rep Griffith in the house switched to the Republican party.

As far as the savings go I don't believe it. No way they find 400 million in savings from Medicare. We have already seen the uproar over mammograms and other regular procedures being set less often and at an older age from the health board that according to the house bill will be the standard for the insurance companies.

While the Senate bill will probably pass before Christmas. The joint committee to reconcile the bills will be long and drawn out, right up to the 2010 mid term elections. Where a lot of Dems will be paying much closer attention to there constituents and the polls. After all it isn't what is best for the country but what will get me reelected.

I think the "savings" to be realized from cutting waste from medicaid are folly... If there is really 400 billion hiding in medicaid's rolls of fat, then I think our politicians should have been taken to task on this years ago for the general lack of oversight. Scooby you make a good point about the uproar over the mammograms representing how tough a row there is to hoe with respect to making cuts/trimming fat....

Scooby01_98 wrote:No way they find 400 million in savings from Medicare.

Pez wrote:If there is really 400 billion hiding in medicaid's rolls of fat...

Whoa, which is it? As I recall, it was $400M, but is $400B being tossed as well?

meta4 wrote:

Scooby01_98 wrote:No way they find 400 million in savings from Medicare.

Pez wrote:If there is really 400 billion hiding in medicaid's rolls of fat...

Whoa, which is it? As I recall, it was $400M, but is $400B being tossed as well?

Close enough for... government... work... nyuk nyuk...

there is in the senate version a "national" option which will be in the co-op section--operated by the same folks who operate the federal gov employees plan i think, this is pretty close to a public option, the big problem being the insurance companies and pharm industry will still be in complete control on cost-fixing and doing less for more for patients without a real public option.

but i am not giving up on a real public option until i read a final approved by both houses bill that does not have one. far as it being obamas fault...he is a constitutional lawyer and taught that topic at a college..i trust he knows how to implement a new program in a manner that will make it difficult to eliminate or make major structural changes to. this is a huge deal in our country..its time has come. add or change some stuff will be done over the years. if he adds the pub option as an executive order then wins a 2nd term, it will likely remain in place because so many will be benefiting by the time the 8 yr is up. if he adds it with exec order then loses the 2nd term it will certainly be suspended/stricken by next prez. its still sticky but even if doesnt get a pub option yet does have the national plan i will just work for change i want to see. i cant find my way to the whole blame obama idea..i will be thanking the teabaggers and just-say-no folks if pub option doesnt get included.

just googled medicare fraud and found alot of hits, there was a big bust that included miami, nj, ny in july, i think there was a big bust earlier in the spring that included ca? i expect that will continue to be a focus of doj for obama remaining time as prez.

far as the mamograms thing..it really irks me the pushing of this outdated comparatively excessively costly and low percentage success rate of this procedure. there is a relatively new "wand" device, i know at least 1 hosp in ft wayne uses it because there was a jg article in last year or so about it (unfortunately, only to verify after a positive is found on mamogram)..about the size of a puter mouse, they just run it across the entire breast surface and it shows red hot-spots where there are cancer cell clusters. 99% effective. cost of use estimated at 15.00.

and unless there is a family history of breast cancer it is stupid to do frequent mamograms or even annual physician feel-for-lumps exams primarily to be able to bill for it and to pay for their equipment even tho it has poor reliability ratings..yes there will be the occasional case where it was caught early thankfully with these exams. great for them, so keep doing those self exams if want to. i think of it like...we dont have brain scans periodically just to see if there is some tumor started there. we dont test bone marrow annually just to see if there are cancer cells there.

floridafun wrote:far as the mamograms thing..it really irks me the pushing of this outdated comparatively excessively costly and low percentage success rate of this procedure. there is a relatively new "wand" device, i know at least 1 hosp in ft wayne uses it because there was a jg article in last year or so about it (unfortunately, only to verify after a positive is found on mamogram)..about the size of a puter mouse, they just run it across the entire breast surface and it shows red hot-spots where there are cancer cell clusters. 99% effective. cost of use estimated at 15.00.

and unless there is a family history of breast cancer it is stupid to do frequent mamograms or even annual physician feel-for-lumps exams primarily to be able to bill for it and to pay for their equipment even tho it has poor reliability ratings..yes there will be the occasional case where it was caught early thankfully with these exams. great for them, so keep doing those self exams if want to. i think of it like...we dont have brain scans periodically just to see if there is some tumor started there. we dont test bone marrow annually just to see if there are cancer cells there.

Sounds like you're a prime candidate to sit on the death panal.

thats the kind of logic i expect from you..i want only the most effective treatment/testing to be used, and the bonus of much lower cost is kinda nice too..so you equate that to a death panel.

because you dont have a bone marrow test, an eeg, an ekg, a cat scan, annually...UNLESS there are some kind of symptoms or history pointing at further exploration or monitoring, i am the death panel person because i am not out there insisting it is every americans right to have every known test run on every human annually in our great nation.

palin/kromie 2012!

Kroman wrote:Sounds like you're a prime candidate to sit on the death panal.

Spelling errors like this make me think your chimpanzee brothers will soon exile your ass to GibbonTown.

this is easier than 2nd grade, man... your computer has spell check...

Your thoughts are so lazy, you should have to hire someone to think for you.

meta4 wrote:

Kroman wrote:Sounds like you're a prime candidate to sit on the death panal.

Spelling errors like this make me think your chimpanzee brothers will soon exile your ass to GibbonTown.

this is easier than 2nd grade, man... your computer has spell check...

Your thoughts are so lazy, you should have to hire someone to think for you.

just googled medicare fraud and found alot of hits, there was a big bust that included miami, nj, ny in july, i think there was a big bust earlier in the spring that included ca? i expect that will continue to be a focus of doj for obama remaining time as prez.

So you only look for spelling errors in posts of people you don't like?

Markwes wrote:

meta4 wrote:

Kroman wrote:Sounds like you're a prime candidate to sit on the death panal.

Spelling errors like this make me think your chimpanzee brothers will soon exile your ass to GibbonTown.

this is easier than 2nd grade, man... your computer has spell check...

Your thoughts are so lazy, you should have to hire someone to think for you.

just googled medicare fraud and found alot of hits, there was a big bust that included miami, nj, ny in july, i think there was a big bust earlier in the spring that included ca? i expect that will continue to be a focus of doj for obama remaining time as prez.

So you only look for spelling errors in posts of people you don't like?

No dickhead, I just want to feel what it's like to ignore someone's comment, and the topic entirely and post an insult in reply.

Are you really that thick that you can't see my method of reflecting Kroman's adolescent comments in reply as an example of how really lame they are?

meta4 wrote:

Markwes wrote:

meta4 wrote:

Kroman wrote:Sounds like you're a prime candidate to sit on the death panal.

Spelling errors like this make me think your chimpanzee brothers will soon exile your ass to GibbonTown.

this is easier than 2nd grade, man... your computer has spell check...

Your thoughts are so lazy, you should have to hire someone to think for you.

just googled medicare fraud and found alot of hits, there was a big bust that included miami, nj, ny in july, i think there was a big bust earlier in the spring that included ca? i expect that will continue to be a focus of doj for obama remaining time as prez.

So you only look for spelling errors in posts of people you don't like?

No dickhead, I just want to feel what it's like to ignore someone's comment, and the topic entirely and post an insult in reply.

Are you really that thick that you can't see my method of reflecting Kroman's adolescent comments in reply as an example of how really lame they are?

"You've lost that lovin' feeling,
Whoa, that lovin' feeling,
You've lost that lovin' feeling,
Now it's gone...gone...gone...wooooooh."

meta4 wrote:

Markwes wrote:

meta4 wrote:

Kroman wrote:Sounds like you're a prime candidate to sit on the death panal.

Spelling errors like this make me think your chimpanzee brothers will soon exile your ass to GibbonTown.

this is easier than 2nd grade, man... your computer has spell check...

Your thoughts are so lazy, you should have to hire someone to think for you.

just googled medicare fraud and found alot of hits, there was a big bust that included miami, nj, ny in july, i think there was a big bust earlier in the spring that included ca? i expect that will continue to be a focus of doj for obama remaining time as prez.

So you only look for spelling errors in posts of people you don't like?

No dickhead, I just want to feel what it's like to ignore someone's comment, and the topic entirely and post an insult in reply.

Are you really that thick that you can't see my method of reflecting Kroman's adolescent comments in reply as an example of how really lame they are?

Yeah dickhead, I'm really that thick that when two thirds of your reply is in reference to spelling, I should just realize you're "reflecting Kroman's adolescent comments". Funny thing is you pick and choose whose adolescent comments to reflect. You're a hypocrite.

Markwes wrote:

meta4 wrote:

Markwes wrote:

meta4 wrote:

Kroman wrote:Sounds like you're a prime candidate to sit on the death panal.

Spelling errors like this make me think your chimpanzee brothers will soon exile your ass to GibbonTown.

this is easier than 2nd grade, man... your computer has spell check...

Your thoughts are so lazy, you should have to hire someone to think for you.

just googled medicare fraud and found alot of hits, there was a big bust that included miami, nj, ny in july, i think there was a big bust earlier in the spring that included ca? i expect that will continue to be a focus of doj for obama remaining time as prez.

So you only look for spelling errors in posts of people you don't like?

No dickhead, I just want to feel what it's like to ignore someone's comment, and the topic entirely and post an insult in reply.

Are you really that thick that you can't see my method of reflecting Kroman's adolescent comments in reply as an example of how really lame they are?

Yeah dickhead, I'm really that thick that when two thirds of your reply is in reference to spelling, I should just realize you're "reflecting Kroman's adolescent comments". Funny thing is you pick and choose whose adolescent comments to reflect. You're a hypocrite.

But for you, it seems, this is just payback for last week when I thanked you for adding to the discussion.

Seems... you just couldn't let it go "unpunished" eh?

That seems to be the status quo with you conser... "gentlemen".

meta4 wrote:But for you, it seems, this is just payback for last week when I thanked you for adding to the discussion.

Seems... you just couldn't let it go "unpunished" eh?

That seems to be the status quo with you conser... "gentlemen".

Interesting assumption, but a wrong one.

fascinating.
edited---thanks mark and ltrt for sharing your views on the thread topic. but guess i already know your view...NO its communism!!