Another Rogue Cop

At least this kid didn't suffer the ole Rodney King beating. I'm glad is wasn't a concrete block wall.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2008/06/18/vo.mi.officer.injures.teen.surveillance

LTRT wrote:At least this kid didn't suffer the ole Rodney King beating. I'm glad is wasn't a concrete block wall.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2008/06/18/vo.mi.officer.injures.teen.surveillance

I don't know, we didn't see what happened before this. Maybe the teen was being a PITA before, and this incident was the last part of it. It never ceases to amaze me though, if an officer of the law says "Stop!"...you Stop. Otherwise you face the consequences for your actions. I side with the cop on this one.

Cincy Fan 44 wrote:

LTRT wrote:At least this kid didn't suffer the ole Rodney King beating. I'm glad is wasn't a concrete block wall.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2008/06/18/vo.mi.officer.injures.teen.surveillance

I don't know, we didn't see what happened before this. Maybe the teen was being a PITA before, and this incident was the last part of it. It never ceases to amaze me though, if an officer of the law says "Stop!"...you Stop. Otherwise you face the consequences for your actions. I side with the cop on this one.

I agree, but based on the video, we see the kid kinda fidgeting, is THAT justification for the cop to bash his face into the wall?

The Officer was out of control, lost his nerve and hit a minor. This was a crime. Where do some get the idea that that they have a license to use force even when absolutely UNnecessary? IMHO, The officer must obey the law.

It looked to me as if the teen was in compliance with the officers directions. It did not look like the officer was giving him verbal direction towards a destination. He wasn't leading the kid to the room, he was dragging him, and then he slammed his face into a wall. Seems pretty cut and dry...

Cincy Fan 44 wrote:

LTRT wrote:At least this kid didn't suffer the ole Rodney King beating. I'm glad is wasn't a concrete block wall.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2008/06/18/vo.mi.officer.injures.teen.surveillance

I don't know, we didn't see what happened before this. Maybe the teen was being a PITA before, and this incident was the last part of it. It never ceases to amaze me though, if an officer of the law says "Stop!"...you Stop. Otherwise you face the consequences for your actions. I side with the cop on this one.

So according to you, The Rodney King beating should be justified because the police cruiser had a siren?

meta4 wrote:

Cincy Fan 44 wrote:

LTRT wrote:At least this kid didn't suffer the ole Rodney King beating. I'm glad is wasn't a concrete block wall.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2008/06/18/vo.mi.officer.injures.teen.surveillance

I don't know, we didn't see what happened before this. Maybe the teen was being a PITA before, and this incident was the last part of it. It never ceases to amaze me though, if an officer of the law says "Stop!"...you Stop. Otherwise you face the consequences for your actions. I side with the cop on this one.

So according to you, The Rodney King beating should be justified because the police cruiser had a siren?

I'm sure there were flashing lights too...

Seriously though, no, the LA cops went overboard on that one. I just think that if you are in any way resisting arrest, you had better be prepared for what may happen to you. If the cops say "Freeze", I freeze. If I want to have the potential of getting shot or tazed or slammed around, I run away as fast as I can, or better yet, reach into my coat like I'm getting ready to pull a gun. Plus when you're being taken down a hallway, you don't drag your feet.

I should clarify my original statement though, I didn't hear or see the officer saying "Stop" or anything like that in the video either. Just typing in general not related to the video.

Cincy Fan 44 wrote:Plus when you're being taken down a hallway, you don't drag your feet.

That's right, because it's grounds for the cop to bash your face into a wall.

It's kind of a gray area to me. Like Cincy said, we don't know what happened prior to this. Yes, he used excessive force, but I think we all would too if provoked enough. Who knows what he was in for? Maybe he punched an old lady? To say you would conduct yourself in a totally professional manner if you were the cop is making a big presumption in my opinion.

2 comments on what has been said though. I didn't see anything to lead me to believe the cop was dragging the kid before slamming him into the wall. And I wouldn't call what the kid was doing "fidgeting". I would call it trying to make things as difficult as possible for the cop to haul him in.

I went back and looked again, and I still have to say based on what I saw, if the person hadn't been trying to make life difficult going down the hallway, NONE of this would have happened. Actions have consequences.

Now if those two were just walking normally down the hallway and the officer all at once shoves him into the wall for no reason, then I'd say "Bad Officer!"

LTRT wrote:

Cincy Fan 44 wrote:Plus when you're being taken down a hallway, you don't drag your feet.

That's right, because it's grounds for the cop to bash your face into a wall.

Only if it's you LTRT...only if it's you.

As the video begins, you can clearly hear the kid crying. His hands were tied behind his back and he's holding what looks to be like a jacket. I suspect the cop reached to grab his arm even though the kid seems to be walking with the officer down the hall. The kid says "let me go, let me go" Then he jerks his arm away from the officer. As soon as the officer is able to get a hold on his arm he thrusts him forward and into the wall. You can hear some kind of a snicker in the background when he strikes the wall. The officer was grabbing his arm at a submission pressure point and also grabs his neck. Then the officer pulls him into the room and thrusts him back against the bench and into the wall, although less forcefully this time.

In my opinion, this appears to be a marked change in the level of force once the officer gets him into the room. I think he made a decision to use less force, even though the kid is putting up more of a resistance than merely jerking his arm away from the officer, he's crumpled on the floor in shock.

Cincy Fan 44 wrote:I went back and looked again, and I still have to say based on what I saw, if the person hadn't been trying to make life difficult going down the hallway, NONE of this would have happened. Actions have consequences.

Now if those two were just walking normally down the hallway and the officer all at once shoves him into the wall for no reason, then I'd say "Bad Officer!"

Well... Jeez. I wonder if this "person" was a "juvenile" and if that changes anything. I have a few simple yes or no questions. We don't need to debate the semantics or define the law for these questions...

Is an officer required to obey the law?
Was the officer forced to use this level of force by the subjects actions?

Outside of that, I'd bet $5 the kid was beaten before he got into the hall. What are the chances that he's just a cry baby and the officer felt like beating up a cry baby?

meta4 wrote:I have a few simple yes or no questions. We don't need to debate the semantics or define the law for these questions...

Is an officer required to obey the law?
Was the officer forced to use this level of force by the subjects actions?

1) Yes.
2) Hard to say. Depends on how strong the person is, which is hard to tell from the video.

I think the prisoner was already sobbing and scared when the video started. And he was very scared about going into that room. He was resisting by dragging his feet (which is sopose to be a non-violent protest stance) because he did not want to go into that room for whatever reason.

Need more of the story.

Found this article about why the guy was arrested, etc...

http://www.mlive.com/news/kzgazette/index.ssf?/base/news-29/1213714228223310.xml&coll=7&thispage=1

Thanks for the article.

I noticed a person watchin in the back of the hallway.

The cop needs disciplined, what could the kid do to him anyway.

moondrop wrote:Thanks for the article.

I noticed a person watchin in the back of the hallway.

The cop needs disciplined, what could the kid do to him anyway.

Negative. The person was resisting. What happened to him was unfortunate. Now, if the cop repeatedly bashed him into the wall, that would be different. It all goes back to if the person wasn't resisting, NONE of this would have happened...and if you really want to go back to why he was originally arrested, if he would have been in school like he's supposed to be, we wouldn't be discussing this. But that's for another argument...

I have to admit, I didn't have the sound on when watching, so didn't know of any sobbing by the kid. And knocking out 3 teeth, yeah that's going overboard. He is being disciplined though, which is the right thing to do. I was a bit disappointed to see the "because he's black" remark as why it happened. Unless there is a reason to believe that besides the obvious difference in skin color, then it's just speculating.

"unintentional" does not excuse the fact that he injured the kid, permanently. A mentally incompetent minor at that. The kid obviously has behavioral issues, as demonstrated by the fact that he wasn't in school, and refused to pay the bus fare. Spitting on the ground? Gimme a break! He could have done better than that.

Beyond what the Supervisors say, the video is evidence of a pervasive culture of unprofessional behavior among SEVERAL members in that department. IMHO, the snicker from the video when the kid gets thrown into the wall was only slightly less troubling than the person watching at the door at the end of the hall.

As far as discipline goes, regardless of documented priors. The officer should be responsible for paying for all dental bills as well as his "supervised probationary period" if he is not criminally charged.

I sighed when I read at the end of that article re: "transparency" that "this is an example of how the system is supposed to work" which sounds ironic if you say that to yourself when you watch the officer "subdue" the kid.

Cincy, If you don't mind me pointing out that my 5 and 7 year old fight from time to time. I don't accept the excuse from either of them that "my actions wouldn't have happened if he/she would have done something differently to begin with". I punish both of them for NOT being the peacemaker in the situation. I hope that department can come up with a better justification for the officers actions than this.

Cincy Fan 44 wrote:Found this article about why the guy was arrested, etc...

http://www.mlive.com/news/kzgazette/index.ssf?/base/news-29/1213714228223310.xml&coll=7&thispage=1

Humm, guess I won't spit on the ground in Kzoo, might get my face bashed into a wall.

meta4 wrote:Cincy, If you don't mind me pointing out that my 5 and 7 year old fight from time to time. I don't accept the excuse from either of them that "my actions wouldn't have happened if he/she would have done something differently to begin with". I punish both of them for NOT being the peacemaker in the situation. I hope that department can come up with a better justification for the officers actions than this.

I don't know...I think that's an apples and oranges comparison. There's a big difference in a 5 & 7 year old and that of, correct me I'm wrong, a 16 year old when it comes to acceptable forms of behavior.

I see what you're saying though. If I start knocking around one of my kids when they're 15, 16, or whatever, suddenly Child Services gets involved and I'm spending time in the slammer. So why doesn't the same hold true for the police officer in this case?

Maybe the difference is the person was arrested and hauled downtown, whereas you're kids aren't considered 'felons'???

Cincy Fan 44 wrote:

meta4 wrote:Cincy, If you don't mind me pointing out that my 5 and 7 year old fight from time to time. I don't accept the excuse from either of them that "my actions wouldn't have happened if he/she would have done something differently to begin with". I punish both of them for NOT being the peacemaker in the situation. I hope that department can come up with a better justification for the officers actions than this.

I don't know...I think that's an apples and oranges comparison. There's a big difference in a 5 & 7 year old and that of, correct me I'm wrong, a 16 year old when it comes to acceptable forms of behavior.

I see what you're saying though. If I start knocking around one of my kids when they're 15, 16, or whatever, suddenly Child Services gets involved and I'm spending time in the slammer. So why doesn't the same hold true for the police officer in this case?

Maybe the difference is the person was arrested and hauled downtown, whereas you're kids aren't considered 'felons'???

I guess, you're entitled to your opinion of fruit My point was not to parallel appropriate punishments of a 16 year old to the same as a 5 or 7 year old. I don't like apples anyhow My point... you're explanation for why the officer was justified, blaming his poor judgment on the subjects actions is weak.

And just how does a juvenile become a felon if he is deemed mentally incompetent to even "stick" a charge to him? Not to mention that it's not a felony to spit on the ground in Kalamazoo, it's a violation of city ordinance which may be a misdemeanor subject to a fine or community service, etc. (I'm not even sure what Juvenile Court would do)

I'm afraid you're shit is weak .... again bro

meta4 wrote:I'm afraid you're shit is weak .... again bro

Now that you mention it I have been drinking dulcolax quite regularly of late...meta4-ically speaking of course

Cincy Fan 44 wrote:

meta4 wrote:I'm afraid you're shit is weak .... again bro

Now that you mention it I have been drinking dulcolax quite regularly of late...meta4-ically speaking of course

Was it the Steak and Shake visit?

meta4 wrote:

Cincy Fan 44 wrote:

meta4 wrote:I'm afraid you're shit is weak .... again bro

Now that you mention it I have been drinking dulcolax quite regularly of late...meta4-ically speaking of course

Was it the Steak and Shake visit?

Must be McChoke and Crap that keeps him regular.