U.S. abuse of detainees

Canuck wrote:

Markwes wrote:Funny how things become a much bigger concern during an election year. And how some of the Board members here all of the sudden are big human rights advocates.

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't these same types of discussion happen on the JG board before The Real Board was created?

Could be. I think maybe Pez brought it up previously, but I could be wrong there too. However, when Pez talks about it, I get the impression he is genuinely concerned, not just looking for a reason to bash the current administration.

Markwes wrote:

Canuck wrote:

Markwes wrote:Funny how things become a much bigger concern during an election year. And how some of the Board members here all of the sudden are big human rights advocates.

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't these same types of discussion happen on the JG board before The Real Board was created?

Could be. I think maybe Pez brought it up previously, but I could be wrong there too. However, when Pez talks about it, I get the impression he is genuinely concerned, not just looking for a reason to bash the current administration.

Should I be concerned about this?

Markwes wrote:

Canuck wrote:

Markwes wrote:Funny how things become a much bigger concern during an election year. And how some of the Board members here all of the sudden are big human rights advocates.

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't these same types of discussion happen on the JG board before The Real Board was created?

Could be. I think maybe Pez brought it up previously, but I could be wrong there too. However, when Pez talks about it, I get the impression he is genuinely concerned, not just looking for a reason to bash the current administration.

Oh and those who disliked Bill Clinton did not bash everything that man did too? Come on, you guys impeached the man over telling a lie about a consensual blowjob. The poor man was just trying to protect his wife, daughter and Monica. No one was harmed by that lie, we have 4,200+ dead American soldiers due to Bush's lies. We also have a "stained" reputation around the world thanks to Bush's go it alone foreign policy and torture.

Sure, I use EVERY opportunity I have to bash Bush and will until the day he and Dick Cheney leave office but I am no different than what the right wing did from 1992 - today. Hell people like FeatherHead can't leave Bill Clinton alone yet ...

Blame goes all the way around on this one.

meta4 wrote:

Markwes wrote:

Canuck wrote:

Markwes wrote:Funny how things become a much bigger concern during an election year. And how some of the Board members here all of the sudden are big human rights advocates.

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't these same types of discussion happen on the JG board before The Real Board was created?

Could be. I think maybe Pez brought it up previously, but I could be wrong there too. However, when Pez talks about it, I get the impression he is genuinely concerned, not just looking for a reason to bash the current administration.

Should I be concerned about this?

His Shit is Weak ...

Oh my!

I suppose I'd sooner get worked up over human rights abuses or the environment than taxes or corporate fiscal corruption, or anything with the $ sign next to it. I don't really know what to say about it, but I don't feel bad.

Bman wrote:His Shit is Weak ...

Not just his... listen to all the conservative republicans.

meta4 wrote: Oh my!

I suppose I'd sooner get worked up over human rights abuses or the environment than taxes or corporate fiscal corruption, or anything with the $ sign next to it. I don't really know what to say about it, but I don't feel bad.

I like it when you get worked up Meta... Instead of LOL on the flag, imagine it saying "Go Meta"

Me too, I would like to think that I focus more on those issues (human rights and environment) than money matters.

Bman wrote:

Markwes wrote:

Canuck wrote:

Markwes wrote:Funny how things become a much bigger concern during an election year. And how some of the Board members here all of the sudden are big human rights advocates.

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't these same types of discussion happen on the JG board before The Real Board was created?

Could be. I think maybe Pez brought it up previously, but I could be wrong there too. However, when Pez talks about it, I get the impression he is genuinely concerned, not just looking for a reason to bash the current administration.

Oh and those who disliked Bill Clinton did not bash everything that man did too? Come on, you guys impeached the man over telling a lie about a consensual blowjob. The poor man was just trying to protect his wife, daughter and Monica. No one was harmed by that lie, we have 4,200+ dead American soldiers due to Bush's lies. We also have a "stained" reputation around the world thanks to Bush's go it alone foreign policy and torture.

Sure, I use EVERY opportunity I have to bash Bush and will until the day he and Dick Cheney leave office but I am no different than what the right wing did from 1992 - today. Hell people like FeatherHead can't leave Bill Clinton alone yet ...

Blame goes all the way around on this one.

All during the Democratic primary, you made the Clintons sound like monsters. You bashed them way more than I ever did. Now that it's over, you're back to bashing the Republican party. Take off your Obama blinders.

meta4 wrote: Oh my!

I suppose I'd sooner get worked up over human rights abuses or the environment than taxes or corporate fiscal corruption, or anything with the $ sign next to it. I don't really know what to say about it, but I don't feel bad.

I never said not to get worked up over human rights abuses, just that it's funny (and not in the ha ha way) that it has all of the sudden become an issue.

When I see posts about stories of prisoner abuse followed by "LOL - Bush and Cheney are in big trouble now!", it's a sick and perverted tactic of using someone else's alleged extreme misfortunes to push a political agenda. No one on here has come up with a solution to how this should be rectified. Sorry but 'Impeach Bush' chants won't help.

Markwes wrote:

meta4 wrote: Oh my!

I suppose I'd sooner get worked up over human rights abuses or the environment than taxes or corporate fiscal corruption, or anything with the $ sign next to it. I don't really know what to say about it, but I don't feel bad.

I never said not to get worked up over human rights abuses, just that it's funny (and not in the ha ha way) that it has all of the sudden become an issue.

When I see posts about stories of prisoner abuse followed by "LOL - Bush and Cheney are in big trouble now!", it's a sick and perverted tactic of using someone else's alleged extreme misfortunes to push a political agenda. No one on here has come up with a solution to how this should be rectified. Sorry but 'Impeach Bush' chants won't help.

Ok, for starters, whoever made the "LOL - Bush, Cheney, Trouble etc..." statement is not "everybody" and that's not "all the sudden". However, I do believe Beck and Hannity have just recently found an opportunity to defend the current administration by manufacturing rhetoric.

Now if I "get your drift"... Apparently, it's not the fact that several crimes of monumental proportion were carried out in public, under the guise of "National Security" by the President of the United States, and members of his staff. The focus seems to be the "liberal left", which is being blamed for "telling" on the President?

I hope you got more than that!


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Sorry, I just HAD to edit and LOL at your use of "sick and perverted" in light of the current topic. You're a funny funny man Markwes!

GREAT POST Meta!!!!!

meta4 wrote:

Markwes wrote:

meta4 wrote: Oh my!

I suppose I'd sooner get worked up over human rights abuses or the environment than taxes or corporate fiscal corruption, or anything with the $ sign next to it. I don't really know what to say about it, but I don't feel bad.

I never said not to get worked up over human rights abuses, just that it's funny (and not in the ha ha way) that it has all of the sudden become an issue.

When I see posts about stories of prisoner abuse followed by "LOL - Bush and Cheney are in big trouble now!", it's a sick and perverted tactic of using someone else's alleged extreme misfortunes to push a political agenda. No one on here has come up with a solution to how this should be rectified. Sorry but 'Impeach Bush' chants won't help.

Ok, for starters, whoever made the "LOL - Bush, Cheney, Trouble etc..." statement is not "everybody" and that's not "all the sudden". However, I do believe Beck and Hannity have just recently found an opportunity to defend the current administration by manufacturing rhetoric.

Now if I "get your drift"... Apparently, it's not the fact that several crimes of monumental proportion were carried out in public, under the guise of "National Security" by the President of the United States, and members of his staff. The focus seems to be the "liberal left", which is being blamed for "telling" on the President?

I hope you got more than that!


-----


Sorry, I just HAD to edit and LOL at your use of "sick and perverted" in light of the current topic. You're a funny funny man Markwes!

Hey, I try.

And no, I don't think you got my drift. Forget party affiliations. You and I have probably both formed opinions on whatever we have read, which is second hand reporting. Okay, fine. If the president or whoever has done anything wrong, then he should have to answer to it. But that's not for me to decide. I didn't incriminate Bill Clinton when everyone else was calling for his head. Same with Matt Kelty. My point is that I suspect there are people who really aren't all that concerned with Afghans being beaten and tortured in Gitmo. Unless it helps to make their candidate's opposition look worse. That's where I have a problem.

Markwes wrote:

meta4 wrote:

Markwes wrote:

meta4 wrote: Oh my!

I suppose I'd sooner get worked up over human rights abuses or the environment than taxes or corporate fiscal corruption, or anything with the $ sign next to it. I don't really know what to say about it, but I don't feel bad.

I never said not to get worked up over human rights abuses, just that it's funny (and not in the ha ha way) that it has all of the sudden become an issue.

When I see posts about stories of prisoner abuse followed by "LOL - Bush and Cheney are in big trouble now!", it's a sick and perverted tactic of using someone else's alleged extreme misfortunes to push a political agenda. No one on here has come up with a solution to how this should be rectified. Sorry but 'Impeach Bush' chants won't help.

Ok, for starters, whoever made the "LOL - Bush, Cheney, Trouble etc..." statement is not "everybody" and that's not "all the sudden". However, I do believe Beck and Hannity have just recently found an opportunity to defend the current administration by manufacturing rhetoric.

Now if I "get your drift"... Apparently, it's not the fact that several crimes of monumental proportion were carried out in public, under the guise of "National Security" by the President of the United States, and members of his staff. The focus seems to be the "liberal left", which is being blamed for "telling" on the President?

I hope you got more than that!


-----


Sorry, I just HAD to edit and LOL at your use of "sick and perverted" in light of the current topic. You're a funny funny man Markwes!

Hey, I try.

And no, I don't think you got my drift. Forget party affiliations. You and I have probably both formed opinions on whatever we have read, which is second hand reporting. Okay, fine. If the president or whoever has done anything wrong, then he should have to answer to it. But that's not for me to decide. I didn't incriminate Bill Clinton when everyone else was calling for his head. Same with Matt Kelty. My point is that I suspect there are people who really aren't all that concerned with Afghans being beaten and tortured in Gitmo. Unless it helps to make their candidate's opposition look worse. That's where I have a problem.

Cool, cool. To tell you the truth, I might "experiment" with torture if I was given the chance... or ordered to do it. It might be fun to see what they know. Even if it's just 'how to make a fudge sundae', or that their favorite TV personality is Steve Irwin. I just think it's "funny" to make people cry and tell me what I want to hear because I pissed on their Quran.

Now that you made me think about it... The Jews wanted Barabbas instead of Jesus. (that's not anti-semitic, it's history) Give us Bush, crucify Jesus and his cronies.

floridafun wrote:oh wait...if its gonna be public lets change what we called facts before the ruling LOL!!!

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91769846

Government Asks to Revise Guantanamo Evidence
by Jackie Northam and Scott Simon

Weekend Edition Saturday, June 21, 2008 · Defense lawyers for terror suspects held at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, say the Bush administration wants to rewrite some of the evidence against the detainees. The administration's request came up during a closed-door meeting this week with judges, defense attorneys and government lawyers. The meeting was to discuss logistics following a Supreme Court decision that Guantanamo prisoners have the right to challenge their detention in federal court.

mark--""When I see posts about stories of prisoner abuse followed by "LOL - Bush and Cheney are in big trouble now!", it's a sick and perverted tactic of using someone else's alleged extreme misfortunes to push a political agenda. No one on here has come up with a solution to how this should be rectified. Sorry but 'Impeach Bush' chants won't help.""

this was my first use of LOL regarding the topic in this thread..and i stand by it. i think it is funny, in a useage meaning sick and pathetic and fishy and yes an element of amusement of how folks react when they are caught with their pants down. that now that the "facts" will be public they need washed. regardless of party affiliation or lack of. i dont think anyone on our boards has called for bushco to be impeached..but i do look forward legal investigations calling for bushco accountability after their rein.

mark---""Funny how things become a much bigger concern during an election year. And how some of the Board members here all of the sudden are big human rights advocates.
Markwes""

i recall extensive discussions of this topic on the original jg board mark, beginning before the pictures were made famous and continuing as each new leak came out, even non election clyle times. it doesnt have to do with dem or repub or election coming up...many repubs are equally disgusted and angry over this and all the bushco secrecy and lies. they arent being disloyal to the party, they are however not supportive of the bushco agenda. just like the repubs disgusted by nixon-gate werent anti-party, but anti the person and his methods. my concern isnt related to promoting my candidate of choice..its absolutely about bushco methods..regardless of which party he is.

mark--""My point is that I suspect there are people who really aren't all that concerned with Afghans being beaten and tortured in Gitmo."" i had not been aware of the afghan torturing until fairly recently. from what i recall seeing on the jb message board, those unconcerned about the humane aspect of torture going on in war-related prisons were the neocons who really thought/think if bushco doesnt do this we will be attacked again..he is making and keeping our nation safe.

floridafun wrote:

floridafun wrote:oh wait...if its gonna be public lets change what we called facts before the ruling LOL!!!

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91769846

Government Asks to Revise Guantanamo Evidence
by Jackie Northam and Scott Simon

Weekend Edition Saturday, June 21, 2008 · Defense lawyers for terror suspects held at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, say the Bush administration wants to rewrite some of the evidence against the detainees. The administration's request came up during a closed-door meeting this week with judges, defense attorneys and government lawyers. The meeting was to discuss logistics following a Supreme Court decision that Guantanamo prisoners have the right to challenge their detention in federal court.

mark--""When I see posts about stories of prisoner abuse followed by "LOL - Bush and Cheney are in big trouble now!", it's a sick and perverted tactic of using someone else's alleged extreme misfortunes to push a political agenda. No one on here has come up with a solution to how this should be rectified. Sorry but 'Impeach Bush' chants won't help.""

this was my first use of LOL regarding the topic in this thread..and i stand by it. i think it is funny, in a useage meaning sick and pathetic and fishy and yes an element of amusement of how folks react when they are caught with their pants down. that now that the "facts" will be public they need washed. regardless of party affiliation or lack of. i dont think anyone on our boards has called for bushco to be impeached..but i do look forward legal investigations calling for bushco accountability after their rein.

mark---""Funny how things become a much bigger concern during an election year. And how some of the Board members here all of the sudden are big human rights advocates.
Markwes""

i recall extensive discussions of this topic on the original jg board mark, beginning before the pictures were made famous and continuing as each new leak came out, even non election clyle times. it doesnt have to do with dem or repub or election coming up...many repubs are equally disgusted and angry over this and all the bushco secrecy and lies. they arent being disloyal to the party, they are however not supportive of the bushco agenda. just like the repubs disgusted by nixon-gate werent anti-party, but anti the person and his methods. my concern isnt related to promoting my candidate of choice..its absolutely about bushco methods..regardless of which party he is.

mark--""My point is that I suspect there are people who really aren't all that concerned with Afghans being beaten and tortured in Gitmo."" i had not been aware of the afghan torturing until fairly recently. from what i recall seeing on the jb message board, those unconcerned about the humane aspect of torture going on in war-related prisons were the neocons who really thought/think if bushco doesnt do this we will be attacked again..he is making and keeping our nation safe.

Vvery interesting aspects of this topic are being brought up. I am with FF, I was red in the face about this when the photos came out of Abu Ghraib.

Secondly, to be honest, Its hard for me to be concerned about those that are being tortured. I'm not in a position to relate on a personal level. I am concerned about the US standing on the national stage as a torturer.

Maybe I'm confused, but the issue at Gitmo isnt torture, but rather it's the voliation of human rights by holding without charges or writ of habeas corpus. I didnt think there was direct evidence of torture at gitmo... I'm getting my clandestine prisons all mixed up.

pez wrote:Maybe I'm confused, but the issue at Gitmo isnt torture, but rather it's the voliation of human rights by holding without charges or writ of habeas corpus. I didnt think there was direct evidence of torture at gitmo... I'm getting my clandestine prisons all mixed up.

Yep, it happened there too...

http://www.forbes.com/work/feeds/afx/2005/06/24/afx2110388.html

There is a documentary called The Road to Guantanamo about three British guys that were imprisoned there for three years.
I haven't seen it yet, however all the feedback i've heard said it is a good film.

i may be wrong but i think the first early indicators of gitmo abuse were the stance of NOT allowing red cross and human rights watch in to review the situation in that first year or two---particularly because the usa demands of all other countries they allow red cross and hrw to get in the doors and look around for a basic assessment at least. the usa view being if you wont let them in there must be horrendous torture going on under a viscious dictatorship.

think there were actually a small handful of military people that carefully leaked to both groups just what they needed to inquire about. human rights watch is usa governments friend when they blast any other country, and our leaders have lauded them..but when they started blasting about gitmo bushco called them an insignificant fringe group--still makes me LOL