Mud slinging in Glass Houses

John McCain says you can judge a man by the company he keeps ... oh really?

John Hagee: McCain actively courted the endorsement of Rev. Hagee, a man who argued that biblical verses made clear that Adolf Hitler and the Holocaust was part of God’s plan to chase the Jews from Europe and drive them to Palestine, and who called the Catholic Church "the Great Whore".

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/21/mccain-backer-hagee-said_n_102892.htm

Rick Davis: McCain's campaign manager remains the treasurer and director of his lobbying firm this year, the firm that has been paid a $15,000-a-month consulting fee from Freddie Mac. The fees continued until last month.

www.nytimes.com/2008/09/24/us/politics/24davis.html


Rick Renzi: In October 2006, when the FBI was looking into allegations that the now indicted Rep. Rick Renzi (R-Ariz.) was under investigation for his involvement in a federal land transfer deal, Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) came to Renzi's rescue. Here's a sample of an automated robo call made to voters in Renzi's district:

"This is Sen. John McCain. I'm calling to urge you to support my friend Rep. Rick Renzi for Congress. Rick has represented the first district of Arizona with tenacity, honesty and integrity beyond reproach. I work with Rick every day and can report to you his total dedication to the people of Arizona and the United States. Please join me in supporting rural Arizona's workhorse congressman on Nov. 7."

Rick Renzi - Februrary 22, 2008Republican Rep. Rick Renzi (REN-zee) has been indicted for extortion, wire fraud, money laundering and other charges related to a land deal in Arizona.
A 26-page federal indictment unsealed in Arizona accuses Renzi and two former business partners of conspiring to promote the sale of land that buyers could swap for property owned by the federal government. The sale netted one of Renzi's former partners $4.5 million.
Renzi is a three-term member of the House. He announced in August that he would not seek re-election.
Today's indictment comes after a lengthy federal investigation into the land developing and insurance businesses owned by Renzi's family.
In April 2007, federal agents raided a Sonoita (so-no-EE-ta) Arizona business owned by Renzi's wife, Roberta.
Renzi has also been one of the co-chairmen of McCain's presidential campaign in Arizona.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/22/rick-renzi-indicted-mcca_n_87974.html


Joseph "Joe Bananas" Bonano: In 1995, McCain sent birthday regards, and regrets for not attending his birthday party, to Joseph "Joe Bananas" Bonano, the head of the New York Bonano crime family, who had retired to Arizona. Five members of the Bonano family have given the maximum personal donation to the McCain campaign.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=990CE7D61638F93BA25752C0A963958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

Charles Keating: nuff said.

I thought I read this same post on the JG Board

Thanks for the post HH. Apparently, LTRT thinks that old board is something like Google - once you post, they own it and it should be hushed?

I Have trouble understanding your point LTRT.

Maybe it would be worth discussing if the sources weren't Huffington Post and NY Times.

We all know those all the best news sources in the world.

I think we are only seeing the tip of the iceberg. We will see McCain and Palin switch to desperation mode (if we are seeing that already), and the mudsligning will go over the top.

Palin called Obama a terrorist for an association with a vietnam-era anti was activist... Obama was a child then...

LTRT wrote:I thought I read this same post on the JG Board

Yes, you sure saw it on the JG board also. Inasmuch as it is my post, I felt free to post in in both locations. I doubt the reading public are all duplicates (many are, but not all).

I see the same news stories on NCB, CBS, ABC, CNN, MSNBC. Admittedly they vary based on the bias of the particular agency.

So, what's you point, should the same story not be allowed on all networks?

LTRT wrote:Maybe it would be worth discussing if the sources weren't Huffington Post and NY Times.

We all know those all the best news sources in the world.

I didn't want to bore you all with long listings of references to the topics. Google any of them and you will find numerous references to each story by many various reporting agencies.

I agree this is just the tip of the ice berg too. This is going to get very ugly.

hoosierhelen wrote:

LTRT wrote:Maybe it would be worth discussing if the sources weren't Huffington Post and NY Times.

We all know those all the best news sources in the world.

I didn't want to bore you all with long listings of references to the topics. Google any of them and you will find numerous references to each story by many various reporting agencies.

I agree this is just the tip of the ice berg too. This is going to get very ugly.

I don't read the defunct board anymore, surprised that anyone does. To each... I suppose. What I appreciate is the succinct and referenced bullet point summary (albeit subjective as all sources seem to be). These summary points will be good for quick reference as the next few months heat up the mud.

Hehe, "just the tip" +1

hoosierhelen wrote:John McCain says you can judge a man by the company he keeps ... oh really?

John Hagee: McCain actively courted the endorsement of Rev. Hagee, a man who argued that biblical verses made clear that Adolf Hitler and the Holocaust was part of God’s plan to chase the Jews from Europe and drive them to Palestine, and who called the Catholic Church "the Great Whore".

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/21/mccain-backer-hagee-said_n_102892.htm

Rick Davis: McCain's campaign manager remains the treasurer and director of his lobbying firm this year, the firm that has been paid a $15,000-a-month consulting fee from Freddie Mac. The fees continued until last month.

www.nytimes.com/2008/09/24/us/politics/24davis.html


Rick Renzi: In October 2006, when the FBI was looking into allegations that the now indicted Rep. Rick Renzi (R-Ariz.) was under investigation for his involvement in a federal land transfer deal, Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) came to Renzi's rescue. Here's a sample of an automated robo call made to voters in Renzi's district:

"This is Sen. John McCain. I'm calling to urge you to support my friend Rep. Rick Renzi for Congress. Rick has represented the first district of Arizona with tenacity, honesty and integrity beyond reproach. I work with Rick every day and can report to you his total dedication to the people of Arizona and the United States. Please join me in supporting rural Arizona's workhorse congressman on Nov. 7."

Rick Renzi - Februrary 22, 2008Republican Rep. Rick Renzi (REN-zee) has been indicted for extortion, wire fraud, money laundering and other charges related to a land deal in Arizona.
A 26-page federal indictment unsealed in Arizona accuses Renzi and two former business partners of conspiring to promote the sale of land that buyers could swap for property owned by the federal government. The sale netted one of Renzi's former partners $4.5 million.
Renzi is a three-term member of the House. He announced in August that he would not seek re-election.
Today's indictment comes after a lengthy federal investigation into the land developing and insurance businesses owned by Renzi's family.
In April 2007, federal agents raided a Sonoita (so-no-EE-ta) Arizona business owned by Renzi's wife, Roberta.
Renzi has also been one of the co-chairmen of McCain's presidential campaign in Arizona.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/22/rick-renzi-indicted-mcca_n_87974.html


Joseph "Joe Bananas" Bonano: In 1995, McCain sent birthday regards, and regrets for not attending his birthday party, to Joseph "Joe Bananas" Bonano, the head of the New York Bonano crime family, who had retired to Arizona. Five members of the Bonano family have given the maximum personal donation to the McCain campaign.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=990CE7D61638F93BA25752C0A963958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

Charles Keating: nuff said.

This post is really laid out well, with names in bold, sources listed, and key points from each source. Well done. After that though, I can't help but consider this nitpicking. In a nutshell, this is saying McCain:
1. ...didn't refuse an endorsement by a nationally known reverend. As if anyone would.
2. ...didn't abandon a fellow senator "when the FBI was looking into allegations that the now indicted...". Apparently, MCcain was supposed to assume guilt before a trial.
3. ...was invited to a birthday party of a crime family and sent a letter back saying he couldn't attend. Clearly then, this family is "company he keeps".

I say big deal.

Markwes wrote:
This post is really laid out well, with names in bold, sources listed, and key points from each source. Well done. After that though, I can't help but consider this nitpicking. In a nutshell, this is saying McCain:
1. ...didn't refuse an endorsement by a nationally known reverend. As if anyone would.
2. ...didn't abandon a fellow senator "when the FBI was looking into allegations that the now indicted...". Apparently, MCcain was supposed to assume guilt before a trial.
3. ...was invited to a birthday party of a crime family and sent a letter back saying he couldn't attend. Clearly then, this family is "company he keeps".

I say big deal.

No complaints with items 1, 3 however the autodial messages from McCain during an FBI investigation of this severity smack of stinky sh*t. For me, proclaiming "honesty and integrity beyond reproach" is the thorn.

Imagine if potential Jurors for a serial rape/murder were treated to similar recorded messages by an elected public official (as opposed to an Non-Gov source) prior to a trial. It's just plain unethical, not to mention false. I know, Hindsight is 20/20 but still, political pro-action like McCain pulled is like pissing in AZ's drinking water.

Wow Hoosier helen another cut and paste with no original thought from you (not surprising, just surprised you could use the mouse to do that much)....Geez.....

Scooby01_98 wrote:Wow Hoosier helen another cut and paste with no original thought from you (not surprising, just surprised you could use the mouse to do that much)....Geez.....

HH, looks like you have some fans already. I'm not sure who you used to be in past lives, but I do know that in this stage of the race, the McCain supporters will soon identify themselves, as Scooby has.

Remember the mud is flying at the candidates, not at us or from us to each other.

I'm just glad I've already decided who I will vote for and hence, nothing from the camps will phase me from now until "Amicable Surrender Day".

Scooby01_98 wrote:Wow Hoosier helen another cut and paste with no original thought from you (not surprising, just surprised you could use the mouse to do that much)....Geez.....

Scooby provide us with good reasons to vote for McCain? I will wait ... oh I can't ... voting early has started today in Indiana.

Vote Obama and vote often!!!!

Bman wrote:

Scooby01_98 wrote:Wow Hoosier helen another cut and paste with no original thought from you (not surprising, just surprised you could use the mouse to do that much)....Geez.....

Scooby provide us with good reasons to vote for McCain? I will wait ... oh I can't ... voting early has started today in Indiana.

Vote Obama and vote often!!!!

Please keep it legit Bman! I don't want a bunch of bums on the street to suddenly get registered and vote for Obama in return for a Subway footlonger.

McCain Voted To Protect Domestic Terrorists Who Carry Out Violence At Abortion Clinics
This morning on CBS’s Early Show, McCain-Palin campaign spokesperson Nancy Pfotenhauer attempted to defend Gov. Sarah Palin’s (R-AZ) debunked claims that Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) has been “palling around” with former radical William Ayers. Referencing a recent New York Times article, Pfotenhauer claimed that if McCain “hung out with somebody who had bombed abortion clinics” it would be a legitimate topic of discussion. She explained:

PFOTENHAUER: The article also concluded is that if Senator McCain had hung out with somebody who had bombed abortion clinics, no one would consider [raising the issue] illegitimate.

Watch it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebZdP_stjPM

Pfotenhauer’s invocation of abortion clinic bombers in defense of McCain is ironic given that McCain has repeatedly voted against protecting Americans from domestic terrorists in the anti-choice movement. On multiple occasions throughout his career, McCain sought to limit the government’s ability to punish violent anti-choice fanatics by:

– Voting against making anti-choice violence a federal crime. As the Jed Report notes, McCain voted in 1993 and 1994 against making “bombings, arson and blockades at abortion clinics, and shootings and threats of violence against doctors and nurses who perform abortions” federal crimes.

– Opposing Colorado’s “Bubble Law.” McCain said he opposed Colorado’s “Bubble Law,” which prohibited abortion protesters from getting within 8 feet of women entering clinics [Denver Post, 2/27/00]. The law was later upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court.

– Voting to allow those fined for violence at clinics to avoid penalties by declaring bankruptcy. NARAL Pro-Chioce America notes that McCain “voted to allow perpetrators of violence or harassment at reproductive-health clinics to avoid paying the fines assessed against them for their illegal acts by declaring bankruptcy.”

Scooby01_98 wrote:Wow Hoosier helen another cut and paste with no original thought from you (not surprising, just surprised you could use the mouse to do that much)....Geez.....

says alot...

Hello Friends,

This is HoosierHelen. For some "unknown reason" I have been banned from this forum. I am unable to sign in. Can anyone help me understand this other than my post regarding McCain was that unpopular?

Thanks
HoosierHelen

meta4 wrote:

Scooby01_98 wrote:Wow Hoosier helen another cut and paste with no original thought from you (not surprising, just surprised you could use the mouse to do that much)....Geez.....

HH, looks like you have some fans already. I'm not sure who you used to be in past lives, but I do know that in this stage of the race, the McCain supporters will soon identify themselves, as Scooby has.

Remember the mud is flying at the candidates, not at us or from us to each other.

I'm just glad I've already decided who I will vote for and hence, nothing from the camps will phase me from now until "Amicable Surrender Day".

I just want an original thought instead of just a cut and paste. Is that really too much to ask

And for your information I have never been a registered Republican in any of the states I have lived. Either Independent or Libertarian. I'm just sorry the Libertarian party this time chose a former idiot republican as it's presidential candidate. Yeah I was hoping for Bloomberg.

Okay, I get it. Someone didn't like my post about McCain. Now I am banned as HoosierHelen?
Good Grief Charlie Brown!!!

Helen

hoosier1 wrote:Hello Friends,

This is HoosierHelen. For some "unknown reason" I have been banned from this forum. I am unable to sign in. Can anyone help me understand this other than my post regarding McCain was that unpopular?

Thanks
HoosierHelen

Oops, my bad... unintentional. happy spamming.

Spamming is NOT what is occurring with my post. I have only posted on this board. What you are hearing from my postings are very important news points regarding our upcoming election. VIS - IF you consider making our selection for the future of our country based on filtered info that has been designed for the "midwest audience" as a fair technique - so be it! It's NOT my belief, it is also NOT what our founding Fathers voted for.

I am so very tired of watching our Midwest States being manipulated by the media and being insulated for information that the East & West Costs receive. Why are we insulated and deprived of full information? My belief is because our local media has it's own agenda, to promote the Republican party. It offends our people to recognize how they are being manipulated, but someone must speak the truth.

This was no accident that I was banned from this site. I'm mentioning the unmentionablel about the Republican Local Party.

Helen

Thanks for opening my access again. I am only speaking my mind. I hope everyone here feels welcome to speak theirs also.

Helen

hoosierhelen wrote:Spamming is NOT what is occurring with my post. I have only posted on this board. What you are hearing from my postings are very important news points regarding our upcoming election. VIS - IF you consider making our selection for the future of our country based on filtered info that has been designed for the "midwest audience" as a fair technique - so be it! It's NOT my belief, it is also NOT what our founding Fathers voted for.

I am so very tired of watching our Midwest States being manipulated by the media and being insulated for information that the East & West Costs receive. Why are we insulated and deprived of full information? My belief is because our local media has it's own agenda, to promote the Republican party. It offends our people to recognize how they are being manipulated, but someone must speak the truth.

This was no accident that I was banned from this site. I'm mentioning the unmentionablel about the Republican Local Party.

Helen

Thanks for opening my access again. I am only speaking my mind. I hope everyone here feels welcome to speak theirs also.

Helen

That would not be true. You posted the EXACT same post on 'the board' without original comment just as you did here. Kindly fuck yourself bitch if you can't accept that banning you was accidental. I know exactly what you are doing and why and I also know that you'll be gone in November. I am also fairly confident you have never stepped foot in Indiana. What you are doing here and on other boards is well within the definition of spamming. You personally haven't mentioned a thing... you're not even creative enough to write your own posts. You merely take someone's words and re-post them on multiple boards. You make doe/moon look like a Rhodes Scholar.

Local resident for 60+ years. Sorry - you loose. I'll be here after you drift off to other parts. Your banned me due to my political beliefs. VERY BAD!

hoosierhelen wrote:Local resident for 60+ years. Sorry - you loose. I'll be here after you drift off to other parts. Your banned me due to my political beliefs. VERY BAD!

Keep telling yourself that. Lifelong Democrat here. Interesting that your nic here and at the board were registered a few weeks ago. Your habit of choosing words that sound like the one you want to use but mean something different is very doe like. Maybe you're her stupider sister.

hoosierhelen wrote:I am so very tired of watching our Midwest States being manipulated by the media and being insulated for information that the East & West Costs receive. Why are we insulated and deprived of full information? My belief is because our local media has it's own agenda, to promote the Republican party. It offends our people to recognize how they are being manipulated, but someone must speak the truth.

What information are you talking about that the Midwest is "insulated" from. Far as I can tell, we get the same National Barack Channel (NBC), the same Clinton News Network (CNN), the same MSObama Channel, the same All Bill Clinton channel (ABC), and the same Clinton Broadcasting System (CBS) that the other parts of the country get. Thank goodness for FOX News, otherwise I'm afraid I'd need 4 phonebooks instead of 3 because of all the leaning it does to the Left.

As for the local media, they're concerned more about the latest car crash, murder, or rain drop to worry about promoting anybody's political agenda. If anything, the local media tend to reflect the community's values they are in (if it's a smaller market like ours is).