Botched Abortion

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2009/feb/06/061105/miami-doctor-investigated-badly-botched-abortion/

TAMPA - The Florida Board of Medicine this morning unanimously voted to revoke the medical license of a doctor involved in a botched abortion.

Physician Pierre Jean-Jacque Renelique refused to talk to reporters after the hearing at the Tampa Airport Marriott, ducking into a men's restroom to avoid television cameras.

Officials say Renelique worked at an abortion clinic outside Miami that was supposed to perform an abortion on 18-year-old Sycloria Williams, who was 23 weeks pregnant. But the doctor didn't arrive on time, and Williams went into labor and delivered a live baby girl.

Officials say one of the clinic owners who has no medical license cut the umbilical cord. Williams says the woman put the baby in a plastic biohazard bag and threw it out.

Nice.

Markwes wrote:Nice.

I read about this last night.

So, shouldn't the clinic worker who threw the baby out be charged with murder? I mean, the kid was "born" after all (by the sounds of the snippet I read) and the umbilical cord was cut...sounds to me like it was a birth at that point then.

How is that different from if a hospital nurse takes a newborn baby and wraps it up into a bag and throws it in the trash?

Cincy Fan 44 wrote:So, shouldn't the clinic worker who threw the baby out be charged with murder? I mean, the kid was "born" after all (by the sounds of the snippet I read) and the umbilical cord was cut...sounds to me like it was a birth at that point then.

How is that different from if a hospital nurse takes a newborn baby and wraps it up into a bag and throws it in the trash?

Remember now, some of the members here tell us that no one knows when life begins. So by that theory, it's all about choice. The mother had already made the choice to abort. And the nurse made the choice that the baby girl wasn't a life. Amazing how a small delay on the doctor's part turns it from a "medical procedure" into the birth of a human, isn't it?

So since our country allows abortions, can it at the VERY least determine some sort of "point of no return"??? I mean, 23 wks seems like it's well past that point to decide to have an abortion. I would like to think most of us on here anyway would realize that a fetus at 23 weeks is indeed a baby and not some glob of tissue.

so what should the womans punishment be?

floridafun wrote:so what should the womans punishment be?

Which woman? The mother? Or the one who threw the baby out?

The one who threw the baby out...charge her with murder.

If you meant the mother...that a good question. I really don't know. I don't think it would be anything more than an accessory to murder, if that. Glad I'm not the lawyer(s) in this case.

Cincy Fan 44 wrote:

floridafun wrote:so what should the womans punishment be?

Which woman? The mother? Or the one who threw the baby out?

The one who threw the baby out...charge her with murder.

If you meant the mother...that a good question. I really don't know. I don't think it would be anything more than an accessory to murder, if that. Glad I'm not the lawyer(s) in this case.

I'm assuming the mother didn't do anything illegal. I don't know what the law is there, but I would hope they try to help her out, as I'm sure she's traumatized from this whole ordeal.

so..if i make arrangements to kill someone, a living breathing person--and i pay/agree to pay the killers to commit the act and participate in planning the timeing and process, and the attempt doesnt first succeed due to unforeseen circumstances..but the target person is then killed by the hired killers using suffocation, the killers should be punished to the full extent of the law, but i should be getting help and sympathy.

i agree this is an awful thing. i absolutely agree the fetus was sufficiently developed to survive. it seems to be an abuse of the law, at least morally. i am sure it happens just like this occasionally that doesnt make the news and is never ok. that doesnt mean the right to obtain a legal abortion should be stricken down.

she knew she was 6 months pregnant and a fetus born at that stage is able to survive. she made all the arrangements, aware of those facts. she wants to sue the hospital now that the horror story is in the media light. make some big bucks is my bet. she is at least equally culpable in this tragedy. maybe even more than any of the other participants.

each state has their own regulations on a point of no return. instead of trying to outlaw abortion..which would simply reduce the reported numbers but NOT the actual numbers and would dramatically increase those womens after-care complications, why not focus on each states regulations for gestation development allowable to be aborted-exception being threat of life of mother?

far as the comments about those of us who claim nobody knows when life begins..what again is the basis of YOUR OPINION that life begins the moment a seed attaches itself to an egg? is it any more proveable than anyone elses opinion? and this is generally speaking..not about this particular situation where the mother set up the murder of a viable fetus who was born alive.

floridafun wrote:so..if i make arrangements to kill someone, a living breathing person--and i pay/agree to pay the killers to commit the act and participate in planning the timeing and process, and the attempt doesnt first succeed due to unforeseen circumstances..but the target person is then killed by the hired killers using suffocation, the killers should be punished to the full extent of the law, but i should be getting help and sympathy.

i agree this is an awful thing. i absolutely agree the fetus was sufficiently developed to survive. it seems to be an abuse of the law, at least morally. i am sure it happens just like this occasionally that doesnt make the news and is never ok. that doesnt mean the right to obtain a legal abortion should be stricken down.

she knew she was 6 months pregnant and a fetus born at that stage is able to survive. she made all the arrangements, aware of those facts. she wants to sue the hospital now that the horror story is in the media light. make some big bucks is my bet. she is at least equally culpable in this tragedy. maybe even more than any of the other participants.

each state has their own regulations on a point of no return. instead of trying to outlaw abortion..which would simply reduce the reported numbers but NOT the actual numbers and would dramatically increase those womens after-care complications, why not focus on each states regulations for gestation development allowable to be aborted-exception being threat of life of mother?

far as the comments about those of us who claim nobody knows when life begins..what again is the basis of YOUR OPINION that life begins the moment a seed attaches itself to an egg? is it any more proveable than anyone elses opinion? and this is generally speaking..not about this particular situation where the mother set up the murder of a viable fetus who was born alive.

Either I'm not following or you're more twisted than I thought. In Florida, a woman can legally have an abortion up to 24 weeks. She went to the clinic at 23 weeks, which is fine according to the law. It's no secret that you're in favor of personal choice, and yet you want to make this woman an accomplice to murder? It seems that you think it's completely fine for a woman to have an abortion up to a certain age of the baby, and then at some point, the destroying of the fetus somehow magically turns into murder. You can't have it both ways. If it's up to each state to regulate it, and if Florida says it's legal, then what did she do wrong? She made a choice to go to this clinic, which you supposedly support, delivered a baby and watched the little girl be taken away and disposed. Yeah, I would say she needs help and sympathy. Have a heart.

What's the basis of my opinion that life begins the moment a seed attaches itself to an egg? I don't know. Maybe the fact that we know that seed turns into a baby? It seems painfully obvious to me. Maybe I'm just missing something.

As for the question about whether or not life begins at the moment of conception. I believe it does. I don't have any scientific evidence right in front of me...but why not error on the side of life? Why is it so hard to error on the side of life?

Cincy Fan 44 wrote:As for the question about whether or not life begins at the moment of conception. I believe it does. I don't have any scientific evidence right in front of me...but why not error on the side of life? Why is it so hard to error on the side of life?

To me it's kind of like arguing about when death occurs. Is it when the heart stops? When there is no brain activity? We certainly wouldn't send someone to the coroner when two doctors have differing opinions as to whether or not he's alive.

Sounds like a sweet scene for Saw VI.

Pretty disturbing. If the baby is alive outside the womb, that's quite questionable for sure. Guess she should have just used a coat hanger or dropped that fetus in the dumpster!

Hugo, you are a shock jock