the july 1 health care town hall meeting

Markwes wrote:

meta4 wrote:What do these numbers have to do with REFORMING health care? Not many seem to understand reform is the core issue in the debate. However, every polarized pulpit address focuses on the FEAR over the MONEY that we THINK we MIGHT have to pay.

I would think the first step in reforming anything is know the magnitude of the problem. 46 million versus some estimates of 8 to 10 million uninsured that really are in need of assistance changes the importance of any program right?

What a friend of mine just today told me, and he is/was a right wing conservative, he did not think people who lost their jobs and had to pay for COBRA insurance for their family on unemployment was even remotely fair ... one day at lunch this guy threatened to flip the table on me when I supported single payer national healthcare now he has a family member who was recently let go and now has to pay COBRA for his family on his $400 GROSS unemployment wages, he can't feed his family, pay his mortgage and other bills and pay his COBRA and he has a son with lymphoma. Nice situation ... I hope all of you greedy bastards enjoy your tax cuts and drive your volvos's while this family either lets their son die or lose their house. Nice .... America can do better, national healthcare should be an American right, not a priviledge in this country.

Bman wrote:

Markwes wrote:

meta4 wrote:What do these numbers have to do with REFORMING health care? Not many seem to understand reform is the core issue in the debate. However, every polarized pulpit address focuses on the FEAR over the MONEY that we THINK we MIGHT have to pay.

I would think the first step in reforming anything is know the magnitude of the problem. 46 million versus some estimates of 8 to 10 million uninsured that really are in need of assistance changes the importance of any program right?

What a friend of mine just today told me, and he is/was a right wing conservative, he did not think people who lost their jobs and had to pay for COBRA insurance for their family on unemployment was even remotely fair ... one day at lunch this guy threatened to flip the table on me when I supported single payer national healthcare now he has a family member who was recently let go and now has to pay COBRA for his family on his $400 GROSS unemployment wages, he can't feed his family, pay his mortgage and other bills and pay his COBRA and he has a son with lymphoma. Nice situation ... I hope all of you greedy bastards enjoy your tax cuts and drive your volvos's while this family either lets their son die or lose their house. Nice .... America can do better, national healthcare should be an American right, not a priviledge in this country.

Geesh Bman. It's too bad that you have sunk to this level where you use your friend's very unfortunate situation to promote your agenda. Imagine now that there are no doctors available to treat his son so he has to wait 6 months to a year before they can do anything. Yippee, that's where we are headed. And yet I'm the greedy bastard. By the way, where is my Volvo, because I sure don't recall having the money for one?

So if health insurance is an American right, how about car insurance? How about house insurance? I guess Bman doesn't care about the guy who loses his house in a fire and now his family has no place to live.

Kroman wrote:My opinion is anytime you put yourself in a situation where you rely on the government then you will be disappointed.

yeah..i know they provide some really crappy insurance for vets, dont they.

floridafun wrote:

Kroman wrote:My opinion is anytime you put yourself in a situation where you rely on the government then you will be disappointed.

yeah..i know they provide some really crappy insurance for vets, dont they.

I wouldn't know because as a vet, I haven't had a need to rely on VA benefits for healthcare. However, I do have friends who are also vets who have recently received care and they have positive comments about the treatment they have received.

Do you have a problem with veterans who were wounded in combat receiving health benefits from the very same government they volunteered to serve? The very same government who wouldn't be here today if men and women hadn't given their life for this country? It's this government's patriotic duty to provide veterans with healthcare.

Read the constitution. It states the role of the government is to defend this country and providing quality care to veterans certainly fits within that realm. Not the big spending habits of the liberal in the white house.

Markwes wrote:So if health insurance is an American right, how about car insurance? How about house insurance? I guess Bman doesn't care about the guy who loses his house in a fire and now his family has no place to live.

Bman is still trying to figure out if he should help that poor old lady on Hesson Cassel.

meta4 wrote:What do these numbers have to do with REFORMING health care? Not many seem to understand reform is the core issue in the debate. However, every polarized pulpit address focuses on the FEAR over the MONEY that we THINK we MIGHT have to pay.

I'm for reform as long as it doesn't drive the country to bankruptcy and it excludes illegal aliens.

Markwes wrote:

meta4 wrote:What do these numbers have to do with REFORMING health care? Not many seem to understand reform is the core issue in the debate. However, every polarized pulpit address focuses on the FEAR over the MONEY that we THINK we MIGHT have to pay.

I would think the first step in reforming anything is know the magnitude of the problem. 46 million versus some estimates of 8 to 10 million uninsured that really are in need of assistance changes the importance of any program right?

Well, you used the word magnitude as opposed to size, et. al... I would say that word choice seems to acknowledge that the problems are at least big enough to discuss on the federal level.

What's the second step?

Markwes wrote:So if health insurance is an American right, how about car insurance? How about house insurance? I guess Bman doesn't care about the guy who loses his house in a fire and now his family has no place to live.

That is freakin' negiligence on his part for not having car or house insurance ...health insurance is a different story. My buddy last night told me that unemployment in Indiana is capped at $390 per week (gross ... yes, you owe federal tax on unemployment compensation). So my buddy has to pay $675 in cobra insurance which needs to come out of his $1560 per month to live on ...

YES, I stand by my argument that health care should be an American right ....

Yes, I stand by my statement that those that think not are greedy bastards.

Markwes wrote:
Geesh Bman. It's too bad that you have sunk to this level where you use your friend's very unfortunate situation to promote your agenda. Imagine now that there are no doctors available to treat his son so he has to wait 6 months to a year before they can do anything. Yippee, that's where we are headed. And yet I'm the greedy bastard. By the way, where is my Volvo, because I sure don't recall having the money for one?

Shoooooot. I thought you were ripping Bman for exploiting that situation and then you turn around and use that example to Fear-tell future events. How does 'your kind' acquire these incredible clairvoyant skills?

meta4 wrote:

Shoooooot. I thought you were ripping Bman for exploiting that situation and then you turn around and use that example to Fear-tell future events. How does 'your kind' acquire these incredible clairvoyant skills?

Experience and logic.

Markwes wrote:

meta4 wrote:

Shoooooot. I thought you were ripping Bman for exploiting that situation and then you turn around and use that example to Fear-tell future events. How does 'your kind' acquire these incredible clairvoyant skills?

Experience and logic.

Okay, how do these incredible experience and logic skills equip your kind to fear-tell future events?

Kirk: Well, Mr Spock, if we can't disguise you, we'll find some way of explaining you.
Spock: That should prove interesting.
from City on the Edge of Forever

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNNQMIjjWgQ

meta4 wrote:

Markwes wrote:

meta4 wrote:

Shoooooot. I thought you were ripping Bman for exploiting that situation and then you turn around and use that example to Fear-tell future events. How does 'your kind' acquire these incredible clairvoyant skills?

Experience and logic.

Okay, how do these incredible experience and logic skills equip your kind to fear-tell future events?

I guess the same way your incredible skills allow you to be sure the businessandmedia.org numbers are skewed.

LTRT wrote:

meta4 wrote:However, every polarized pulpit address focuses on the FEAR over the MONEY that we THINK we MIGHT have to pay.

Now that's the most funny thing I've heard all day.

I hope you didn't think I was talking about the church pulpit. If the correct word was lectern, mybadsosorry.

Myth: People will remain uninsured without government assistance.

Fact: The Congressional Budget Office says that 45 percent of the uninsured will be insured within four months. CBO Director Douglas Holtz-Eakin also said that the frequent claim of 40+ million Americans lacking insurance is an “incomplete and potentially misleading picture of the uninsured population.”

Fact: Liberal non-profit Kaiser Family Foundation put the number of uninsured Americans who do not qualify for government programs and make less than $50,000 a year between 8.2 million and 13.9 million. (The 8.2 million figure includes only those uninsured for two years or more.)

Fact: CBO analysis found that 36 million people would remain uninsured even if the Senate’s $1.6 trillion health care plan is passed.

The bias in that article is so obvious I shouldn't have to explain but here are my thoughts...

So the CBO says that 45% of the uninsured will be insured within 4 months. Holtz-Eakin says [those that claim 40+M uninsured are] "incomplete and potentially misleading" but his statement that 45% of the uninsured (20,545,650) will be within 4 months is equally incomplete and potentially misleading.

HOW will they become insured? HOW many persons will become uninsured in 4 months? How would anyone be able to forecast this accurately? THAT, my friend is a platitude based on assumptions if not a completely inaccurate fabrication.

Do you expect me to believe that the CBO understands the Senate's $1.6T plan so well that they can predict the future? I think not.

CBO Director Douglas Holtz-eakin is the FORMER CBO Director and FORMER McCain campaign economic chair so he is hardly one to believe on this topic.

Nuff said about quoting this dude.

Bman wrote:CBO Director Douglas Holtz-eakin is the FORMER CBO Director and FORMER McCain campaign economic chair so he is hardly one to believe on this topic.

Nuff said about quoting this dude.

yeah..ironic that they and ama feel they can approve of everything in the health care bill EXCEPT anything to do with a public option..which will hurt their profit margins. cause the us of a just cant successfully run a socialistic public healthcare option with any measure of success...just ask our military boys and girls!

Bman wrote:CBO Director Douglas Holtz-eakin is the FORMER CBO Director and FORMER McCain campaign economic chair so he is hardly one to believe on this topic.

Nuff said about quoting this dude.

Heh, that IS funny. This article was released/published on 6/23/09 so they must feel that census data from 2000 and info from Former Director Holtz-Eakin who left the CBO in 2005 is still relevant.

I heard a bit of trivia on the radio yesterday re: vaccines for pregnant women. There are 6 million women become pregnant each year in the US. 65% or so are born, 20% are aborted, 15% end in miscarriage or other. 3.9 Million births per year at average costs:
* Vaginal delivery without complication = $6,200
* Vaginal delivery with complication = $8,200
* C-section without complication = $11,500
* C-section with complication = $15,500

Bman wrote:CBO Director Douglas Holtz-eakin is the FORMER CBO Director and FORMER McCain campaign economic chair so he is hardly one to believe on this topic.

Nuff said about quoting this dude.

Come on Bman, I would've expected a little better from you than that. The next thing you'll tell us is that the current administration were all strangers to one another until appointed right.

i heard on npr last week similar numbers and other stuff included non-related to pregnancy, compared with what each costs in canada for same procedures..about half or less than what they cost here.

floridafun wrote:i heard on npr last week similar numbers and other stuff included non-related to pregnancy, compared with what each costs in canada for same procedures..about half or less than what they cost here.

I don't doubt that. What I know that people like here (FTW) is the "comfort" rooms at Parkview North... maybe, I dunno, people will have to bring their own damn DVD player or similar if they want boob toob benefits (heeheeisaidboob)

Does anyone really believe universal health care will have pregnant mothers on 6 month waiting list for care? Oh wait, it's a 40 week term so that would be just fine.

Bman wrote:I hope all of you greedy bastards enjoy your tax cuts and drive your volvos's...

I'll sell it to you for the right price.

meta4 wrote:

floridafun wrote:i heard on npr last week similar numbers and other stuff included non-related to pregnancy, compared with what each costs in canada for same procedures..about half or less than what they cost here.

I don't doubt that. What I know that people like here (FTW) is the "comfort" rooms at Parkview North... maybe, I dunno, people will have to bring their own damn DVD player or similar if they want boob toob benefits (heeheeisaidboob)

Does anyone really believe universal health care will have pregnant mothers on 6 month waiting list for care? Oh wait, it's a 40 week term so that would be just fine.

and obamacare will kill seniors! i gotta hide!!

LTRT wrote:

Bman wrote:I hope all of you greedy bastards enjoy your tax cuts and drive your volvos's...

I'll sell it to you for the right price.

That's a nice ride. You got style!

That mansion in the background ain't bad either.